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Topic: Inclusion research
Replies: 88   Last Post: May 12, 2010 11:40 AM

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Carolyn Jean Fairman

Posts: 4
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Inclusion research
Posted: Feb 9, 1997 9:29 PM
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gino crocetti <ginocroc@mail.idt.net> wrote:
>I don't mean to sound preachy, but the details of the class composition
>and management are the determining factors in deciding what should be
>done.
>
>In some circumstances, a fairly broad range of student work can be
>included in a positive way within a class. One way is to have the more
>advanced students help the others. Frequently, trying to understand the
>difficulties of the other students greatly enlarges the "more advanced"
>students understanding of the subject area (especially math) and human
>nature. Having the advanced students work together can also work, but in
>an integrated class, the teacher must be creative in guiding such a
>group to enlarge (enrich) their understanding rather than simply going
>ahead faster. Most texts make some gesture in this direction, but it is
>rarely adequate.


But this is hypocritical. You are asking that the more advanced kids
be denied learning as fast and as well as they can -- so that the less
advanced kids can learn... faster and better!

It seems inclusion, or anything that demands the faster kids slow down
so the slower kids can go faster, is inherently biased and
hypocritical. The same argument for mainstreaming -- these kids are
not getting as good an education without being in a regular classroom
-- is being used to stop other kids, gifted ones for example, from
getting as good an education. I'm all for challenging the special ed
kids, having high expectations of them and giving them academically
challenging work. That wasn't what you talked about -- you involved
not letting the smart kids "simply go ahead faster", which many can
do. On what justification?

I would rather we improve the education of the special ed kids without
sacrificing the smarter kids. The disdain for the faster ability of
the gifted, or even just above average, in the other post is very
disturbing.

Why *not* let the fast kids advance as fast as they are obviously
capable of? Why hold them back if you support mainstreaming special
ed kids on the idea they had been held back otherwise?

>Both of these have limits, usually not approached in practice in my
>opinion. Although throwing chairs (mentioned at one point) is not
>acceptable, such dramatic actions by a student are usually based as much
>on frustration and unmet needs as an inherent love of flying objects.


Yes, and it is but one way the other students are disrupted. Being
always in the position of helping others rather than being allowed to
progress at the speed you can and develop *yourself* is a reason why
_smarter_ kids would throw chairs. But they don't. They simply stop
working hard, stop trying and fail to develop _their_ potential.

Do you think this loss of potential is worth sacrificing when you
didn't think so of other kids? Which kids are you willing to
sacrifice and why not find a solution that doesn't require
sacrificing anyone else's education?

Mainstreaming is not one such option -- it sacrifices the education of
many others. It is based on a good idea -- stretch the potenial of
all kids including the special ed who often get ignored. I'm fine
with that. But when it happens in a way where the end result is
sacrifice the smarter kids, slow *them* down, so they teach other kids
in the class instead of getting the education *they** deserve, then we
do not have a fair answer yet.



--
18 Oct '96, the phrase "You Play Like a Girl" ==If equality is viewed
took on an entirely different meaning-American ==as a loss, what does
Basketball League inaugural game. GO LASERS! ==that tell you about the
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~cfairman/ ==previous situation?





Date Subject Author
2/1/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
neubert@mentor.cup.edu
2/1/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
catherine
2/1/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Marc Whitaker
2/4/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
kristin michelle snyder
2/4/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Marc Whitaker
2/4/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
David Hole
2/5/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
W.P. Fleischmann
2/6/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
tom dean
2/10/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Lynne
2/10/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
David M. Childers
2/13/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
catherine
2/13/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Michele L. Papadopoulos
2/13/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Marc
2/15/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Donna Mettler
2/15/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
C. Graham
2/15/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
mikevano@ix.netcom.com
2/16/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
RW
2/18/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Bellew Family
2/18/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Marc
2/23/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Ken Laha
2/23/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Herman Rubin
2/23/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Gmlyle@scvnet.com
2/26/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
andrewto
2/27/97
Read Science Olympics
George Huczek
7/19/99
Read science olympics
Sabrina
2/27/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
catherine
2/16/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Herman Rubin
2/22/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
ne@nb.net
2/22/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Herman Rubin
2/22/97
Read Rubin's trolls
ne@nb.net
2/22/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
David L. Hanson
2/23/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Frank A. Bouchard
2/22/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Herman Rubin
2/25/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Robert Bacal
2/27/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Herman Rubin
2/27/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Rich Washabaugh
2/27/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
mikevano@ix.netcom.com
2/28/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Brian M. Scott
3/3/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
mikevano@ix.netcom.com
3/4/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Brian M. Scott
3/4/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
garscosi@pipeline.com
3/1/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Badlanz
3/1/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Philip Cain
3/1/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Robert Bacal
3/4/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Albert Yang
3/4/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Robert Bacal
3/6/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Herman Rubin
3/8/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Robert Bacal
3/13/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Brian M. Scott
3/13/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
sockeye
3/14/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Albert Yang
3/4/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Rich Washabaugh
2/22/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
garscosi@pipeline.com
3/3/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
Melvin Billik
3/8/97
Read Re: Rubin's trolls
catherine
2/13/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
nospam@geocities.com
2/15/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Herman Rubin
2/18/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
catherine
2/13/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Herman Rubin
2/14/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
TRM
2/19/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
LOOKER
2/19/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Marc
2/20/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
catherine
2/20/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
catherine
2/21/97
Read School To Work
Rod Beaumont
2/4/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Carri Mueller
2/4/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
nospam@geocities.com
2/4/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Herman Rubin
2/4/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
jodee foell
2/8/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
gino crocetti
2/8/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Chris
2/9/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
choffman@radix.net
5/12/10
Read Re: Inclusion research
David D. Sullivan
2/9/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Rogan
2/9/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
nskrenes
2/9/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Carolyn Jean Fairman
2/10/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
horvath
2/11/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Nicole Budiselich
2/11/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Marc Whitaker
2/12/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
sara lehman
2/12/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Marc
2/12/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
nospam@geocities.com
2/15/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Michael D. Neller
2/12/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Herman Rubin
2/12/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Shannon M. Seigfried
2/7/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
Fred W. Bach, TRIUMF Operations
2/16/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
hdbiker@mhtc.net
2/17/97
Read Re: Inclusion research
choffman@radix.net

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