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Topic: Getting students to take responsibility
Replies: 68   Last Post: Oct 23, 1995 11:39 AM

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Michael Paul Goldenberg

Posts: 7,041
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Registered: 12/3/04
Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Posted: Oct 10, 1995 9:45 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

I think Ted is badly misinterpreting the thrust of my argument. I'm not
surprised by the spin being put on what I said, though I am surprised by
the source.

Those of us who are skeptical of quantitative methods in the social
sciences are not skeptical of quantitative methods per se, a point I made
clearly in my post. In my case, I simply question the "objectivity" of
so-called hard data when it comes to most educational issues. Quantifying
height, weight, production yield, or SAT scores are equally easy, but not
equally meaningful. The last requires a great deal of interpretation. For
my money, even at its best "objective" science involves the reading and
unpacking of data in terms of theories. And since science would appear to
be socially constructed and contingent, as well as constantly evolving, I
question the notion that quantifying gives us unquestionable truth.

Lest someone now accuse me of being a New Age mystic, my skepticism does
not betoken a streak of "touchy-feely-ism" on my part; rather, it suggests
that I haven't bought into the testing mystique quite as heavily as many of
my fellow Americans, both within and without the education community.

My comment about gut-level reactions is something else entirely: there
comes a point where everything that makes one human suggests strongly that
there is something wrong with an idea. That is my reaction to Saxon. I can
explain it in detail and have done so previously. But a certain amount of
my dislike is based on intuition. How do I "prove" to you that John Saxon
is an educational charlatan? Even a quack can work cures through the halo
effect, among other artifacts.

I'm willing to look at data and consider its implications; I'm just not
fooled into thinking that I'm more of a "scientist" when I do so than I am
when I explore the implications of the ethnographies I collect.

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Michael Paul Goldenberg
|University of Michigan 310 E. Cross St.
|School of Education 4002 Ypsilanti, MI 48198
|Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1259 (313) 482-9585
|(313) 747-2244
|
|"Truth is a mobile army of metaphors."
|Friedrich Nietzsche
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------






Date Subject Author
10/4/95
Read Getting students to take responsibility
TPANITZ@mecn.mass.edu
10/5/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Peter J. Smith
10/5/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Johnny Hamilton
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Andre TOOM
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Andre TOOM
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/9/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/9/95
Read Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Susan L. Addington
10/9/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Francis Fennell
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Dr. William Tomhave
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Bill Juraschek
10/9/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Karen Dee Michalowicz
10/23/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Abel R. Lastra
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
DanH150093@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Bill Juraschek
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Virginia L. Keen
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Karen Dee Michalowicz
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/9/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Bill Juraschek
10/9/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Ted Alper
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Ted Alper
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Johnny Hamilton
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
clarkcc@PLU.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Ted Alper
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Francis Fennell
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/17/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Howard L. Hansen
10/18/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/18/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/19/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/19/95
Read You guys...
W Gary Martin
10/19/95
Read Re: You guys...
M. Matras
10/20/95
Read Re: You guys...
DanH150093@aol.com
10/20/95
Read Re: You guys...
Janet V Smith
10/19/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu

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