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Topic: Getting students to take responsibility
Replies: 68   Last Post: Oct 23, 1995 11:39 AM

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Michael Paul Goldenberg

Posts: 7,041
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Registered: 12/3/04
Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Posted: Oct 11, 1995 10:12 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Wed, 11 Oct 1995 DanH150093@aol.com wrote:

> Kent-
>

> >>I think that measuring human behavior is not impossible, but extremely
> difficult. I think The SAT, like the IQ test, says a lot more about large
> groups, then it does about the individual.>>
>
> At this point, in many places in this country, arguing about the efficacy of
> standardized tests is a silly enterprise. It is so completely ludicrous to
> question these tests when the presense of them might tackle a REAL problem.
>
> In the inner city, lack of student motivation is profound and deep. On any
> day 1/6 of our student body is absent. Getting them to do homework is a task
> difficult beyond belief. At Open House 10% of the parents show. Student
> motivation (perhaps THE most important component for educational success) is
> almost totally lacking in a very large minority of our students.
>
> We need real tests to help us motivate our kids. You don't pass; you aren't
> promoted!! It's very simple. The only people seemingly incapable of
> understanding are the reforming educrats.
>
> When is somebody going to come and help us? It gets terribly frustrating at
> times, particularly when you read the nonsense known as the NCTM "Standards".
> Standards my %^&*((.
>
> Dan
>
>
>

Dan,

What do you actually KNOW about standardized tests? What documentation
have you studied? What ETS publications have you perused even cursorily?
Having spent over 15 years working with the major instruments the ETS has
produced to "separate the wheat from the chaff," I am not very impressed
with what they have come up with.

Try reading the two part article in the ATLANTIC MONTHLY that appeared
during the summer. Try reading Stephan Jay Gould's MISMEASURE OF MAN. Try
reading SOMETHING before bemoaning how the "educrats" (whatever the heck
that's supposed to mean) are ruining you, your students, and American
education in general.

The sad fact is that you have bought the testing myths lock, stock, and
barrel, and you're too intellectually lazy and dishonest (and yes, those
are meant to be just as insulting as they might appear to be) to take the
time to learn the first thing about what you're advocating. Just as many
of your complaints about the Standards appear to be made completely off
the top of your head (not to mention being conflated with the California
standards), your advocacy of standardized tests seems to be grounded in
nothing.

Having just gotten flack from you about MY alleged religious fervor, I
think it only fair to suggest that you examine yourself with that
particular lens.



-----------------------------------------------------------------

Michael Paul Goldenberg
University of Michigan 310 E. Cross St.
4001 School of Education Ypsilanti, MI 48198
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1259 (313) 482-9585
(313) 747-2244 email: mikegold@umich.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------





Date Subject Author
10/4/95
Read Getting students to take responsibility
TPANITZ@mecn.mass.edu
10/5/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Peter J. Smith
10/5/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Johnny Hamilton
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Andre TOOM
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Andre TOOM
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/9/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/9/95
Read Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Susan L. Addington
10/9/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Francis Fennell
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Dr. William Tomhave
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Bill Juraschek
10/9/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Karen Dee Michalowicz
10/23/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Abel R. Lastra
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
DanH150093@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Bill Juraschek
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Virginia L. Keen
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Karen Dee Michalowicz
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/9/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Bill Juraschek
10/9/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Ted Alper
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Ted Alper
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Johnny Hamilton
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
clarkcc@PLU.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Ted Alper
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Francis Fennell
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/17/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Howard L. Hansen
10/18/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/18/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/19/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/19/95
Read You guys...
W Gary Martin
10/19/95
Read Re: You guys...
M. Matras
10/20/95
Read Re: You guys...
DanH150093@aol.com
10/20/95
Read Re: You guys...
Janet V Smith
10/19/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu

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