The Math Forum

Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by NCTM or The Math Forum.

Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Notice: We are no longer accepting new posts, but the forums will continue to be readable.

Topic: Count all the votes
Replies: 11   Last Post: Nov 15, 2000 11:56 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Michael Paul Goldenberg

Posts: 7,041
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Registered: 12/3/04
RE: Count all the votes
Posted: Nov 15, 2000 4:01 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

I'm sorry, but Jody's post is itself a political statement. Why is it
significant that the 2nd graders could do the punch cards so well? Does that
say something about math? Or is it a left-handed slap at the intelligence,
competence, and/or eyesight of the elderly Jewish and African-American
voters who screwed up? Please don't tell me that your mention of that was
just a neutral comment. And who decides, exactly, what is and is not
on-point? You? Greg? Me? Victor? A machine?

Michael Paul Goldenberg
Washtenaw Technical Middle College
LA 230K
Ann Arbor, MI 48106
(o)734 477-8560 (h) 734 482-0497
"Truth is a mobile army of metaphors." Nietzsche

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jody Underwood [mailto://]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:50 AM
> To: karen jones;
> Cc: Greg Goodknight; Gerald Von Korff; Math Forum
> Subject: Re: Count all the votes
> I'd like to follow up on what Karen Jones-Budd said -- this isn't a
> political forum. Since there's so much interest in having political
> flame wars, perhaps you should split off and create
> math-teach.politics.
> I'd like to bring back Annie Fetter's post -- for people to share
> with Math Forum folks and with this list how they have used voting in
> their math classes. I was looking forward to seeing the responses to
> this, but the responses were mostly political!
> The only thing that came close was the "Count all the votes" post by
> Gerald Von Korff. However, it fell short because it didn't talk
> about the math involved, and how we can get our students interested
> in this very unique phenomenon. Isn't there a way we can take
> advantage of this situation?
> I've got a couple of relevant stories. Did you hear about the 4th
> grade class who were asked to vote for Gore on ballots that were just
> like the ones used in West Palm Beach, FL? 100% of them were able to
> successfully vote for Gore in less than 1 minute. Here's the usenet
> posting about it:

Or this story on 2nd graders voting for their favorite Disney
character using that ballot:

While these are interesting stories, are they good samples? What can
we do with them with our students?

Another lesson comes to mind on modeling what happens when any 2
people count a large amount of cards with more than 2 categories in
them -- will it come out the same both times?

Can we get anything other than statistics and probability examples?

Greg Goodknight's post was trying to get at some issues, and though
they weren't strictly about math, they were about testing and
reliability. I would be very interested to see some answers to his
questions. Does anyone have references to the tests that have been
done on the ballot counting and the machines?

(Btw, my experience with punch cards tells me that the problem is not
that the punch hole did not come out completely, but that the card
reader reads more than one card at once. These old machines need to
be tuned on a regular basis. But I didn't hear that reason from the
media. So much for believing what the media tells you about
something you know. But I digress. (But I'm not flaming another
poster!) )

Here's to talking about math and teaching math. Can we get on track?


Jody S. Underwood, Ph.D.
Educational Technologist & Research Associate 610-544-3644 x213
The Math Forum 800-756-7823
101 South Chester Road, Suite 400 610-544-1358 (fax)
P.O. Box 156
Swarthmore, PA 19081-0156

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© The Math Forum at NCTM 1994-2018. All Rights Reserved.