Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math

Topic: why .ps ?
Replies: 39   Last Post: Aug 9, 2000 3:13 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
QSCGZ

Posts: 175
Registered: 12/12/04
Re: why .ps ?
Posted: Aug 6, 2000 9:31 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply



some short answers and comments to posts from
Lynn Killingbeck,Jeremy Boden,Steve L,Stephen Montgomery-Smith


Lynn Killingbeck wrote:
>QSCGZ wrote:
>>
>> why is most mathematical online-information only available in
>> .ps or .dvi encrypted format ???
>>
>> I assume , that .ps can handle pictures , greek letters , integral
>> symbol etc. , but there are usually ways to do this in ASCII as well ,
>> with only small decrease of readability.
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>> disappointed , qscgz .



>On what do you base this claim?

e.g. usenet-postings (=ASCII)

>Pictures in ASCII?

rectangles , triangles , many graphs - no problem.
watch out e.g. Bill Taylor's posts , although it's usually humour ,not math.

>Greek letters in ASCII?

ASCII 224-235 . But I meant , that often Latin letters or indices
can be used instead of Greek ones with only small loss of readability.

>Integral symbols in ASCII?
/
S,$,I,INTEGRAL, | ,
/

>Oh, I can do etc. in ASCII - etc. - but that's about it.
>
>With small decrease (well, if you consider nearly
>unintelligible as small...)...


most math usenet posts use ASCII , are they nearly unintelligible ?
(for that reason)

>Perhaps you are trying to read these intermediate languages directly. If
>so - don't do that! They are aimed at machine intelligibility, not at
>human intelligibility. Use the appropriate viewer.


..with the already mentioned disadvantages

>I don't speak TeX or PostScript languages, but understand that each is
>far more capable that plain text, when viewed with the appropriate
>viewer. I've written small papers with mutliple integrals and loads of
>super- and sub-script stuff (such fun things as COV material, taking
>partial derivatives with respect to y' and y'', for example), and can't
>imaging conveying the content in plain-vanilla ASCII. (I used the
>equation editor from Microsoft Word, some old version - and, frankly,
>getting the things to look reasonable was, using the proper technical
>jargon, a bitch.) ASCII and readable and your list (pictures, greek
>letters, integral symbol, etc.) don't live in the same universe!


but they can coexist.
Maybe someone can test it ? Make .ps _and_ .txt versions available online,
get it stored at searchengines and then count accesses/downloads !


------------------------------------------------------

Jeremy Boden wrote:

>In article <20000805050557.10077.00000765@ng-fz1.aol.com>, QSCGZ
><qscgz@aol.com> writes

>>
>>why is most mathematical online-information only available in
>>.ps or .dvi encrypted format ???

>.pdf or .html is usually also available

I rarely find .html

>For typeset quality you will find .dvi to be (usually) the best option.

>It's more due to the fact that mathematicians tend to work in
>Universities. These institutions tend to use Unix. This in turn strongly
>favours the use of postscript printers.


>Actually, software is available to convert .tex -> .html (and other
>types), albeit somewhat imperfectly.


.html -> .txt is also available (without pictures)

>Perhaps you'd like to convert a few pages of your favourite algebra text
>into ASCII and compare it with the original?


I'm a bit familiar with algebra-ascii , from newsgroup reading and
computer programming. I don't consider it a big restriction.


---------------------------------------------------------

Steve L wrote :

>> it takes longer with modem and can't be read and answered online ,
>> like other emails.

>
>Sure it can. IE doesn't have any problem displaying .ps files for me. If
>I wanted to comment on a complicated .ps file I'd probably drop into TeX
>to describe some of the problems.


fine for you. But how many % of -say- sci.math.posters can do this too ?

>The .tex files aren't _that_ bad to read normally.
>

>> sci.math e.g. can live pretty well without pictures.
>
>In fact, it has to; sci.math is a no-binary-allowed group. On sci.math we
>try to stick to a text-with-LaTeX-bits but if binary stuff is allowed, we
>should use them -- and binaries should be allowed.


sometimes I see pics here , and it works.

>> If .txt can be converted to .tex and .tex can't be converted to .txt ,
>> then how can .tex be better ? (except for graphics)

>
>tex, properly compiled, can do everything plain text can do, and it can
>do more.


keyword-search ?

>And if a person reads the abstract and finds that they want to read the
>paper, they download the paper itself.


yes, but that's only -I guess- 20% of cases. You read lots of
abstracts before one download.

>>>... but now try to write a matrix,let's say a 50-by-50...
>But when you compile it, it appears perfectly fine.

OK, but now write a computer program to read the values into an array.

>But let's say you
>have a 50-by-50 matrix in which most of the elements in each row are
>negative (but a different set for each row) -- when you display that
>matrix in text format, unless your window is set much wider than 80
>characters (which is somewhat standard for newsreaders) you're going to
>have to wrap or scroll.


yes, I get more than 80 characters per line. No big problem IMO.
And you could also switch the display-modus.

>How do you work with matrices? When working with matrices, would []
>represent row and column indices?


we still have ()

>> hmm, maybe ascii 236 : ("equal EC")
>
>It showed up as an accented i, not the infinity sign you (based on
>context) wanted to see.


must be your newsreader , that changed it. Look up the ASCII-table.

>I have no problem viewing .ps files online.

I guess, you're in the minority with this.

>I don't remember what SW is.

software, pardon.

>File size, if it's _reasonable_, isn't that much of a consideration
>
>Faster printing -- depends on the printer.
>
>Convertable -- there are programs to convert .tex to .dvi to .ps to .pdf
>.. between just about any two formats you want, I'd imagine.


not to .txt , though.

>Let's say there are half a dozen papers, and each author is writing it in
>plain text. Each author might use different conventions for how to write
>integrals, functions, etc. Classifying them (which is what I think you're
>thinking of using the machine readability for) will still be difficult.


some standards will establish soon. But remember , I did suggest to publish
both , .txt AND .ps (or .tex ...) .

>installed at all, try reading the HTML code for webpages rather than
>reading that additional web browser software. Let's see how adept you can
>be at viewing webpages from that, complete with pictures.


I use htmstrip , no pictures , though.

>>> .. why .tex files are not released it's too easy to change them
>>> and claim that the file is yours.


not a math-specific problem. Imagine e.g. journalists would use
similar codings in ezines for that reason ...

>We don't see a need to abandon a perfectly-good format (TeX and ps) and

I never told to do this. Use both. But often , once someone has it in
TeX or ps he thinks , there is no more need for txt .



BTW. I had to delete lots of "=20" , "=2E" ,... (equal20,equal2E...)
from your post. Was it TeX , that created them ?


------------------------------------------------------

Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote:

>..x^y (with the carot),
>.. suddenly I was unable to solve even the simplest equations.
>
>I{0 to oo} .... dx
>that it would have actually set mathematics back a few years.
>
> students submitting their homwork as text
>.. I find them hard to read, and usually full of mistakes,
>which the student would not had made had
>he used pen and paper.)


for paper and pencil calculations , of course , you/they shouldn't
use carots , or I{} , or ..
Only for displaying the result e.g. to newsgroups or webpages
or homework.

>Now TeX has really freed us. Anyone can post their
>papers on the web, and anyone can freely read it.


with some additional effort the first time.

>Programs that typeset TeX, or preview dvi files, or
>print them out, are free, and will operate on all but
>the very oldest of equipment. (I found a 286 amply
>powerful, although AMSLaTeX and LaTeX-2e killed it.)
>
>No-one can complain that TeX is elitist. Every effort


for non-mathematicians it might appear as such.

>has been made to make TeX and its related programs
>as accessible as possible...


--qscgz







Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.