The Math Forum

Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by NCTM or The Math Forum.

Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math

Notice: We are no longer accepting new posts, but the forums will continue to be readable.

Topic: presidential polling theory?
Replies: 3   Last Post: Nov 5, 2000 11:11 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Bill Daly

Posts: 69
Registered: 12/8/04
Re: presidential polling theory?
Posted: Nov 3, 2000 4:02 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

In article <>, (Randy Poe) wrote:
> Caught just a piece of a news story on the radio a couple of days ago,
> where they were talking about the difficulties pollsters face trying
> to get meaningful projections in this close US presidential race. One
> pollster was saying that he knew of cases where two polls differed by
> 15 points in the same state, and he seemed to be implying that was
> connected to the closeness of the race.
> This started me wondering what sort of model could explain that.
> We're trying to estimate p = the fraction of voters who will vote for
> Gore. We do this by measuring p-hat, a fraction of people polled who
> say they'll vote for Gore. Mostly I guess p-hat is assumed to be
> normal with mean p and variance depending on sample size.
> Obviously the sample has to be truly random and unbiased in some sense
> for this to work, and presumably the polling companies have techniques
> they use to try to eliminate bias. This guy seemed to be implying that
> the nature of the race could either be introducing biases, or
> increasing the variance of p-hat in some other way.
> What could be going on here?
> - Randy

Scott Rasmussen (of the Portrait of America poll) was interviewed on TV
the other night. He was asked to explain why two polls in the NY Senate
race were so far apart. His answer was that the NY Times assumed that
31% of the voters would come from NY City, while Zogby assumed instead
26% or 27%. This is certainly enough to explain at least a part of the
discrepancy, though not perhaps the whole of it. For the record, the
Times assumption is based on the results in the 1996 Presidential
election, while the Zogby assumption is based on the results in the 1998
Senate election.

It used to be that pollsters used a large enough sample size (about 2000
in a Presidential election) to keep the expected error down. However,
this makes it expensive and slow to do a poll, and there is still a lot
of jitter in the numbers. Nowadays, they sample a much smaller group and
then twiddle the numbers to conform to their expectations, resulting in
a self-fulfilling prophecy. This makes their clients in the media
happier, at the expense of being "mathematically incorrect". The press
is by and large innumerate anyway, so no one is likely to complain. The
only poll today which behaves as I would expect a mathematically correct
poll to behave is Gallup, and that's the one the press distrusts most.

The existence of systemic bias is easy to prove. In the absence of bias,
one would expect that for any two contemporaneous independent polls, the
spread in one should be greater than the spread in the other about 50%
of the time. An actual comparison over the last 10 days shows that the
Battleground poll has Bush leading by a wider margin than the Zogby poll
for 9 of the 10 days, with the 10th day being a tie. This is highly
unlikely if there is no bias. Comparisons between other polls lead to a
similar conclusion.



Sent via
Before you buy.

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© The Math Forum at NCTM 1994-2018. All Rights Reserved.