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Topic: Greek Alphebet
Replies: 80   Last Post: Jan 19, 2004 11:22 PM

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Robert Israel

Posts: 11,902
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Greek Alphebet
Posted: Nov 12, 2003 1:37 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply


In article <87wua6atuf.fsf@becket.becket.net>,
Thomas Bushnell, BSG <tb+usenet@becket.net> wrote:

>It is true that the near-eastern "alphabets" are not properly
>alphabets. The real test is whether they represent every phoneme.
>Because the near-eastern scripts leave out vowels, they aren't proper
>alphabets.


>But this is also a matter of degree. The classical Greek alphabet
>does not distinguish long and short alpha, for example, which is a
>phonemic difference. Similarly, until accent marks were invented, it
>did not distinguish different accents, which are also phonemic in
>ancient Greek.


Not many languages, I think, have a distinct representation for each
phoneme. Certainly not English. Maybe some languages with a restricted
set of phonemes. Is the International Phonetic Alphabet the only true
alphabet for the English language?

>However, you are incorrect about there being some natural reason for
>near-eastern scripts to not need vowels but IE languages to need
>them. Fr xmpl, y cn rd ths prtt wll, cnt y? nglsh cn b rlbly rd b
>ppl wtht vwls, mst f th tm. And Hebrew did finally decide to start
>writing in the vowels because things had gotten too hard.


The Hebrew vowel marks (nekudot) were invented for biblical texts,
where for religious reasons it was important to get the pronunciation
right even if you didn't understand the meaning. They are not
generally used in modern Hebrew.

Robert Israel israel@math.ubc.ca
Department of Mathematics http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Z2



Date Subject Author
3/25/02
Read Greek Alphebet
Tom Miller
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
W. Dale Hall
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
don@cmtzone.net
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Doug Magnoli
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
don@cmtzone.net
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Doug Magnoli
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
W. Dale Hall
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Tom Miller
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
W. Dale Hall
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Jake Wildstrom
3/27/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Jason Wojciechowski
3/26/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Lewis Mammel
3/28/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Mikael Johansson
3/26/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Randy Poe
3/26/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Adam Ringler
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Peter Webb
3/25/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Lynn Killingbeck
3/26/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Nico Benschop
3/26/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Randy Poe
3/26/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Robert Israel
3/26/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
James Buddenhagen
3/26/02
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Ioannis
11/1/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
arsenal
11/6/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
John Savard
11/6/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Ioannis
11/6/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Dik T. Winter
11/6/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Robert Kolker
11/8/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Herman Rubin
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Lee Rudolph
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Agamemnon
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Phil Carmody
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
robert egri
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Ioannis
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Ioannis
11/8/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
gogu
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
gogu
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
G. A. Edgar
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Ioannis
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Jason K. Lambrou
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Lee Rudolph
11/8/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Herman Rubin
11/8/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Agamemnon
11/8/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Robert Israel
11/9/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Agamemnon
11/9/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Robert Israel
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Agamemnon
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Ioannis
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
choro-nik
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Agamemnon
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
choro-nik
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Agamemnon
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
choro-nik
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Agamemnon
11/9/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Mark William Hopkins
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Agamemnon
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Hades
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Herman Rubin
11/6/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Prai Jei
11/6/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Dik T. Winter
11/6/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
John Savard
11/9/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
J 891
11/9/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
G. A. Edgar
11/9/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Dave Rusin
11/11/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
J 891
11/12/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Dik T. Winter
11/12/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
J 891
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Herman Rubin
11/11/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
J 891
11/10/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
George Baloglou
11/11/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
J 891
11/11/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
George Baloglou
11/7/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Steve Maye
11/9/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
anonymous
11/12/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
11/12/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Robert Israel
11/12/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
11/12/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Robert Israel
11/14/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Herman Rubin
11/14/03
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
Herman Rubin
1/19/04
Read Re: Greek Alphebet
john

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