The Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by NCTM or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Topic: Teacher Quality
Replies: 48   Last Post: Dec 5, 2006 3:33 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Haim

Posts: 8,779
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Teacher Quality
Posted: Dec 2, 2006 8:58 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

Kirby,

Whether I am right or wrong, whether you agree or disagree, these are all a normal part of the give and take of public debate. But I am discouraged by your remarks because it seems you really and truly do not understand vouchers. It cannot be just my incapacity, however great, to clearly convey ideas because, after all, surely you have heard about vouchers before, from other sources.

So, I was prepared to walk away from this discussion, thinking that it died of natural causes, but then I wondered if you are the only one who misunderstands vouchers. I mean, you ought to understand what you disagree with, no?

Kirby Posted: Dec 1, 2006 10:33 PM
>But the core function of educating, like core function
>of defense, should not be outsourced to private
>interests,


Your daughter is your private interest. Now, you may argue that vouchers fail to achieve their purpose, but the only purpose of a voucher is to "outsource" your daughter's education to you. The government is not channeling the money for your daughter's education to anyone but you. It is perfectly possible, even plausible in many instances, that you and many of your friends and neighbors will pay your vouchers to exactly the same people who are educating your children now.

Indeed, this is the foundation of my point to Richard. Richard asserts that most people like the schools they have. If he is right, then vouchers will change nothing.

>...at least not if that means what I think it means:
>abrogation of the public trust, with both long and
>short term negentropic consequences for our nation.
>
>If that's not what you mean, then I believe this will
>become clear as we study your proposed curricula.


And this is the really big point you miss. "My" curriculum is completely irrelevant to the issue of vouchers. The point of a voucher system is that you, Kirby, will spend your voucher wherever you like. You might spend your voucher in a school that offers "my" curriculum but no one, most especially the state, will coerce you into doing so. You will spend your voucher in the place that you believe will best educate your daughter. It is entirely up to you.

In fact, I predict that under a voucher regime it will be people mainly on my side of the debate who will be the most surprised and disillusioned. I strongly suspect that my team vastly over-estimates the demand for quantity and quality in math education and, now that I think about it, I really do not know how many of the "Mathematically Correct Crowd", as MPG would have it, even want vouchers. I am very much afraid that many of my team want to dictate curriculum just as much as your side does.

The point of a voucher system is that there will be an end to dictated curricula. The curricula that will eventually emerge will be the curricula that were voted for by the citizens of these united states. The voucher is what will enable people to vote for curricula, and the final result may well surprise us all.

Haim
Je me souviens


Date Subject Author
11/27/06
Read Teacher Quality
Haim
11/27/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
11/27/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
11/27/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
11/28/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Richard Strausz
11/28/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Richard Strausz
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Richard Strausz
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Bishop, Wayne
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Richard Strausz
11/29/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
11/30/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
11/30/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Richard Strausz
11/30/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
11/30/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
11/30/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Richard Strausz
11/30/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
11/30/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
12/4/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Greg Goodknight
12/4/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
12/4/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
12/1/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Richard Strausz
12/1/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
12/3/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Richard Strausz
12/3/06
Read Choice exists today ( was: Teacher Quality)
Richard Strausz
12/4/06
Read Re: Choice exists today ( was: Teacher Quality)
Bishop, Wayne
12/4/06
Read Re: Choice exists today ( was: Teacher Quality)
Kirby Urner
12/4/06
Read Re: Choice exists today ( was: Teacher Quality)
Richard Strausz
12/4/06
Read Re: Choice exists today ( was: Teacher Quality)
Wayne Bishop
12/4/06
Read Re: Choice exists today ( was: Teacher Quality)
Richard Strausz
12/4/06
Read Re: Choice exists today ( was: Teacher Quality)
Kirby Urner
12/5/06
Read Re: Choice exists today ( was: Teacher Quality)
Pam
12/3/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
12/1/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
12/1/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
12/1/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
12/1/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
12/1/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
12/1/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner
12/2/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Haim
12/2/06
Read Re: Teacher Quality
Kirby Urner

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© The Math Forum at NCTM 1994-2017. All Rights Reserved.