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Topic: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Replies: 172   Last Post: May 2, 2013 2:49 AM

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Jack Markan

Posts: 6,964
Registered: 2/26/05
Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Posted: Sep 5, 2008 7:18 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Sep 5, 3:32 pm, contact080...@jamesrmeyer.com wrote:

> Obviously MoeBlee is totally unaware of the fundamental principle of
> mathematical equality - that when two expressions are to be asserted
> to be equal, then they have the same properties in the syntax of the
> mathematical language in which the equality is declared.


Whatever 'they have the same properties in the syntax ...' is supposed
to mean, I am well aware of (though always still learning) the basics
of mathematical equality syntactially as axiomatized (various ways) at
first order and as defined at higher order, and as understood
philosophically in such a sense as Leibniz, and as discussed in
various articles on the subject, and as given its standard formal
semantics, and as understood informally and naively in ordinary
mathematics. And, ironically (with regard to your comment), it is non-
standard notions of equality that I am not very well informed about.

Nothing I've said contradicts any ordinary sense of equality in
mathematics.

> If MoeBlee
> wants to play with his own non-standard notion of mathematical
> equality, he is free to do so, but there is no reason why he should
> expect anyone else to play along with him.


I've not used ANY non-stanard notion of equality whatsover. Moreover,
you've not even MENTIONED any SPECIFIC remark I've made that you claim
is non-standard, let alone any justification for your claim.

At this point, you're merely blowing smoke.

I explained to you PRECISELY how

Z(x) = Phi(the_standard_numeral(x)).

You don't get past that by making a FALSE, non-specific, and
unexplained claim that I am using any "non-standard" notion of
equality".

Nope, just ordinary mathematical equality.

You've now had ample opportunity to make your case that the Godel
proof is in any way incorrect. At each point I've explained to you why
your own criticisms are off-based. And along the way you've put words
in my mouth to make utter strawmen and now you just resort to a false,
non-specific, and unexplained claim about "non-standard equality". So,
my patience is pretty much exhausted with you. I don't have unlimited
time or interest to explain at each step why your notions are
incorrect about the particulars in Godel's proof, and indeed, in your
latest post, you abandoned addressing MY explanation of those
particulars and instead just just swung wildly with your false claim
about "non-standard equality". You've had more than your three wild
swings and 'yer out!

MoeBlee



Date Subject Author
7/21/08
Read Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
7/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jesse F. Hughes
7/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
G.E. Ivey
7/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Gerry Myerson
7/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jesse F. Hughes
7/22/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Gc
7/22/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Paul Epstein
7/29/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
7/29/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Gerry Myerson
8/4/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
7/29/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/2/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
8/2/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
8/3/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Gerry Myerson
8/8/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
8/8/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Joshua Cranmer
8/9/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
8/9/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Joshua Cranmer
8/10/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Gerry Myerson
8/4/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/8/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
8/8/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Joshua Cranmer
8/9/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
8/12/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
8/12/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/18/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
David R Tribble
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jose Carlos Santos
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Gc
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jose Carlos Santos
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jose Carlos Santos
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
7/29/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
7/29/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
7/29/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
8/2/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Gc
8/3/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
8/3/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
8/12/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/3/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Gc
8/4/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/8/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
8/8/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/15/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
thirdmerlin@hotmail.com
8/15/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Joshua Cranmer
8/15/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/18/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/18/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/18/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
5/2/13
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
b9704084@hotmail.com
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jesse F. Hughes
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/22/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/22/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/28/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/29/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/18/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/18/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Herman Jurjus
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Herman Jurjus
8/18/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/18/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/18/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
LauLuna
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/20/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
8/21/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Mike Kelly
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
LauLuna
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
LauLuna
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
LauLuna
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Gc
8/19/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
puppet_sock@hotmail.com
8/28/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
8/29/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Zim Olson
8/29/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Zim Olson
8/30/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
8/30/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
9/1/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
9/2/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
9/5/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
9/5/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jesse F. Hughes
9/5/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
9/7/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
tchow@lsa.umich.edu
8/30/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
9/4/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
9/5/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
9/5/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
9/7/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
9/7/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
9/8/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
9/8/08
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
2/27/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
contact080501@jamesrmeyer.com
2/27/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
A N Niel
3/17/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/17/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/17/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jesse F. Hughes
3/23/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barr barrett
3/23/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
3/24/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/24/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
3/24/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/25/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Aatu Koskensilta
3/25/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/25/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/25/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/25/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/25/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/25/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/26/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/26/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/26/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/27/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/27/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/27/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/27/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/28/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/30/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/30/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/31/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/31/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/31/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/31/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/31/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/31/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
3/31/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/31/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
3/31/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
Jack Markan
4/1/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett
4/1/09
Read Re: Godel Incompleteness Theorem
barry barrett

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