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Topic: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Replies: 441   Last Post: Feb 5, 2013 6:25 AM

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Virgil

Posts: 311
Registered: 5/26/09
Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Posted: Jun 3, 2009 4:53 PM
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In article
<d797f3cd-50a1-4403-8e1f-a04b31d252ff@s21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
WM <mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:

> On 3 Jun., 05:34, Virgil <virg...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > In article <KKn5F7....@cwi.nl>, "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Win...@cwi.nl>
> > wrote:
> >

> > > In article
> > > <5df917e3-517f-4a38-b28b-363843496...@t21g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> WM
> > > <mueck...@rz.fh-augsburg.de> writes:
> > >  > You drop the completeness condition in certain cases but you assume it
> > >  > in case of Cantor's proof. That is cheating.

> >
> > > You again misunderstand the proof completely.  There is an assumption that
> > > a complete list is provided and that is proven false.

> >
> > As I understand the Cantor diagonal proof, the only assumption is that
> > whenever one is provided with a list then that list has to omit at least
> > one sequence. I do not think it was, in its original form, an indirect
> > proof as your statement seems to indicate.

>
> Cantor understood it as a proof by contradiction. "da wir sonst vor
> dem Widerspruch stehen würden, daß ein Ding E0 sowohl Element von M,
> wie auch nicht Element von M wäre." But probably you know better.


A quote without a source cited is not evidence.

There is certainly no necessity for it to be cast as an indirect proof
when the direct proof is even simpler.
>
> The only thing that is interesting here is that the same holds for the
> list of all natural numbers. Give me a list of natural numbers and I
> will show you that it is incomplete.


A list in the context of the Cantor diagonal argument means a mapping
from the set of all naturals to the members of the listed set, so that
the function, f: N --> N: x |--> x is a list of natural numbers.

Now WM must shown how and why THAT listing is incomplete (in the sense
of missing some member of N either as argument or as value of the
function f).
>
> Of course you are not allowed to say: All n in N!


All n in N, without the factorial symbol, though, is quite legitimate.

> That would be a
> contradiction, because there is no last n and consequently no chance
> to check whether your list would contain all n in N.


Since my listing clearly includes every n in N for which n = n, WM must
show that there is some n for which n = n is false to falsify my
argument.

--
Virgil


Date Subject Author
5/27/09
Read Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/27/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
5/27/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/27/09
Read Answer to Tim Little, I. Walker et al.
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/27/09
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Virgil
5/27/09
Read Re: Answer to Tim Little, I. Walker et al.
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/27/09
Read Re: Answer to Tim Little, I. Walker et al.
Virgil
5/27/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/28/09
Read Re: Answer to Tim Little, I. Walker et al.
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/28/09
Read Re: Answer to Tim Little, I. Walker et al.
Virgil
5/28/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
5/28/09
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G. Frege
5/28/09
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Jesse F. Hughes
5/29/09
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Dik T. Winter
5/29/09
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G. Frege
5/29/09
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Dik T. Winter
5/30/09
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G. Frege
5/30/09
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Jesse F. Hughes
6/2/09
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Dik T. Winter
5/30/09
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Jesse F. Hughes
5/30/09
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Ralf Bader
6/1/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/1/09
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Jesse F. Hughes
6/1/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/2/09
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george
6/2/09
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Denis Feldmann
6/2/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
William Hughes
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
William Hughes
6/11/09
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Guest
6/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
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William Hughes
6/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
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William Hughes
6/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
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William Hughes
6/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
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William Hughes
6/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
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William Hughes
6/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
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William Hughes
6/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/13/09
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Virgil
6/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/13/09
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Virgil
6/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/13/09
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Virgil
6/13/09
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William Hughes
6/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/13/09
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Virgil
6/13/09
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William Hughes
6/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/13/09
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Virgil
6/13/09
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William Hughes
6/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/13/09
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Virgil
6/13/09
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William Hughes
6/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/13/09
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Virgil
6/14/09
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Owen Jacobson
6/14/09
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Virgil
6/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/13/09
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Virgil
6/13/09
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6/13/09
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William Hughes
6/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/13/09
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Virgil
6/13/09
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William Hughes
6/14/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
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Virgil
6/14/09
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William Hughes
6/14/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
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Virgil
6/14/09
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William Hughes
6/14/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
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Virgil
6/14/09
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William Hughes
6/14/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
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Virgil
6/14/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
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Virgil
6/14/09
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6/14/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
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6/14/09
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6/15/09
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6/15/09
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6/15/09
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6/15/09
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6/15/09
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6/15/09
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6/15/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/09
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Virgil
6/15/09
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6/15/09
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6/15/09
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6/15/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/09
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6/16/09
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6/16/09
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2/5/13
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6/16/09
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6/16/09
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Virgil
6/16/09
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6/16/09
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6/16/09
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Virgil
6/16/09
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Virgil
6/16/09
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6/17/09
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6/17/09
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6/17/09
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6/17/09
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Virgil
6/17/09
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6/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/09
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Virgil
6/17/09
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William Hughes
6/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/09
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Virgil
6/17/09
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William Hughes
6/17/09
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6/17/09
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Virgil
7/17/09
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6/17/09
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6/17/09
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6/17/09
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Virgil
6/17/09
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William Hughes
6/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/09
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Virgil
6/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/09
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6/17/09
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6/17/09
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6/18/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/09
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6/18/09
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6/18/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/09
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Virgil
6/18/09
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William Hughes
6/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/09
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Virgil
6/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/09
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Virgil
6/19/09
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William Hughes
6/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/09
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Virgil
6/19/09
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William Hughes
6/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/09
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Virgil
6/19/09
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William Hughes
6/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/09
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Virgil
6/19/09
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William Hughes
6/20/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/20/09
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Virgil
6/20/09
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William Hughes
6/20/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/20/09
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Virgil
6/20/09
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William Hughes
6/20/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/20/09
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Virgil
6/20/09
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William Hughes
6/20/09
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george
6/20/09
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george
6/20/09
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Virgil
6/20/09
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george
6/2/09
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george
6/2/09
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6/3/09
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george
6/3/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/3/09
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george
6/3/09
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Virgil
6/3/09
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6/3/09
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6/3/09
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6/3/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/3/09
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6/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/7/09
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Virgil
6/7/09
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6/7/09
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Virgil
6/8/09
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6/8/09
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6/9/09
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6/9/09
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6/9/09
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6/9/09
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6/10/09
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6/10/09
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6/10/09
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6/10/09
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6/11/09
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6/11/09
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6/11/09
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6/11/09
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6/11/09
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6/11/09
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6/11/09
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6/11/09
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6/11/09
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6/11/09
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6/12/09
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6/19/09
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6/22/09
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6/3/09
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6/3/09
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5/29/09
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6/19/09
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6/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/09
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Virgil
6/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/25/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/09
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Virgil
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
MeAmI.org
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
7/1/09
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Dik T. Winter
7/2/09
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G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
herb z
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
herb z
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Aatu Koskensilta
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Daryl McCullough
7/2/09
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G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
7/3/09
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G. Frege
7/4/09
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Aatu Koskensilta
7/6/09
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Dik T. Winter
7/6/09
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G. Frege
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jesse F. Hughes
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Ralf Bader
7/2/09
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G. Frege
7/2/09
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Virgil
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/2/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
6/8/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/8/09
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Virgil
6/9/09
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Jack Markan
6/9/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
6/9/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
William Hughes
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
herb z
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Owen Jacobson
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/11/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/11/09
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William Hughes
6/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
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YBM
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/19/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
6/19/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/25/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Guest
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/1/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/3/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/7/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
6/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
george
5/29/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/29/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/31/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/31/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/31/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Guest
5/27/09
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Virgil
5/28/09
Read Who introduced false logic?
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5/28/09
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Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Who introduced false logic?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/30/09
Read Re: Who introduced false logic?
Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Who introduced false logic?
Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Ralf Bader
5/27/09
Read Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/27/09
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David C. Ullrich
5/27/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
5/27/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Guest
5/27/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/28/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/28/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
5/29/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Peter Webb
5/29/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
5/29/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/29/09
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Virgil
5/29/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Peter Webb
5/30/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/30/09
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Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Peter Webb
5/31/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/31/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
5/31/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/31/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Peter Webb
5/31/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
David Bernier
6/1/09
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Jack Markan
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
6/2/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
george
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
6/2/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
george
6/2/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
george
6/2/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
george
6/3/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
george
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Guest
2/5/13
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6/14/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
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Virgil
6/14/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Owen Jacobson
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Owen Jacobson
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/16/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
MeAmI.org
6/16/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/18/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/20/09
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