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Topic: Answer to Dik T. Winter
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de

Posts: 14,718
Registered: 1/29/05
Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Posted: Jun 7, 2009 3:33 PM
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On 4 Jun., 04:21, "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Win...@cwi.nl> wrote:
> In article <5b9b7d5b-11d3-4125-8052-ad45e6e7a...@x5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> WM <mueck...@rz.fh-augsburg.de> writes:
>  > On 3 Jun., 04:25, "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Win...@cwi.nl> wrote:
>  > > There is no difference between finite unions and infinite
>  > > unions.
>  >
>  > There should not be, but there is --- at least if ZF is taken to be
>  > true.
>
> You are again wrongly interpreting things.  There is no question about ZF
> being true or not.  ZF is only one of the many possible theories.


It is an impossible theory because finished infinity is impossible.
>
> Mathematics is not a science that tries to find truth,


There is a mathematics, namely basic arithmetic of integers, that is
right. And there are some logical rules that are right. And from these
foundations some theorems can be obtained that are right. There is no
need and no space for any axiom at all. There is no need , in
particular, for "a set N" with some "binary relations". It is
impossible, to change that stuff. And Hilberts famous model including
1 + 1 = 0 does nothing but express the display of the last wheel of a
binary calculator (or Leibniz's calculator that all time long had
problems with the digit transfer).

> it is a science where
> it is determined what a given set of axioms (i.e. presupposed valid statements)
> leads to.


A given set of axioms is sometimes impossible. This is so with the
axiom of infinity that Zermelo created, misunderstanding Dedekind's
idea of potential infinity.

>  > The union of FISONs (of natural numbers or of other finite linear
>  > sets) is the last FISON.
>
> ZF does agree, when there is a last FISON.  Your problem is that the axiom
> of infinity states that here is no last FISON of all FISONs.


That is not my problem. For potentially infinite sets it is not a
problem at all. For a completely existing set ZF is wrong. But that is
usually veiled by applying potential infinity whenever the problem
occurs.

Regards, WM


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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/09
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Virgil
6/30/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/30/09
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MeAmI.org
6/30/09
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Virgil
7/1/09
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Dik T. Winter
7/2/09
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G. Frege
7/2/09
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Dik T. Winter
7/2/09
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herb z
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
herb z
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/3/09
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Aatu Koskensilta
7/3/09
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Daryl McCullough
7/2/09
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G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/2/09
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G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
G. Frege
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
7/3/09
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G. Frege
7/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
7/3/09
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G. Frege
7/4/09
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Aatu Koskensilta
7/6/09
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Dik T. Winter
7/6/09
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G. Frege
7/6/09
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Dik T. Winter
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jesse F. Hughes
7/3/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/3/09
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Virgil
7/3/09
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Ralf Bader
7/2/09
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G. Frege
7/2/09
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Virgil
7/2/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/2/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/2/09
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Virgil
7/2/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/2/09
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Jack Markan
7/2/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/6/09
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Jack Markan
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
7/6/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
6/8/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/8/09
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Virgil
6/9/09
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Jack Markan
6/9/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Jack Markan
6/9/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/11/09
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William Hughes
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
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herb z
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Owen Jacobson
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/11/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/11/09
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William Hughes
6/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
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YBM
6/11/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/12/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/19/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/19/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/09
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Virgil
6/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/25/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/25/09
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Virgil
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Guest
6/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/1/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/3/09
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Dik T. Winter
6/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/7/09
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Virgil
6/11/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Dik T. Winter
6/3/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
george
5/29/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/29/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/31/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/31/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/31/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Guest
5/27/09
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Virgil
5/28/09
Read Who introduced false logic?
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5/28/09
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5/30/09
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5/30/09
Read Re: Who introduced false logic?
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5/30/09
Read Re: Who introduced false logic?
Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
5/30/09
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Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Ralf Bader
5/27/09
Read Natural numbers are uniquely defined
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5/27/09
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David C. Ullrich
5/27/09
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Virgil
5/27/09
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5/27/09
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5/28/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/28/09
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Virgil
5/29/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Peter Webb
5/29/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
5/29/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
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5/29/09
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Virgil
5/29/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Peter Webb
5/30/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/30/09
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Virgil
5/30/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Peter Webb
5/31/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/31/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
5/31/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
5/31/09
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Peter Webb
5/31/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
David Bernier
6/1/09
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Jack Markan
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
6/2/09
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george
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/1/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
Virgil
6/2/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
george
6/2/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
george
6/2/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
george
6/3/09
Read Re: Natural numbers are uniquely defined
george
6/12/09
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2/5/13
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6/14/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
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Virgil
6/14/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/09
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Virgil
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Owen Jacobson
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Owen Jacobson
6/15/09
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Virgil
6/15/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
Virgil
6/16/09
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MeAmI.org
6/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/09
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Virgil
6/18/09
Read Re: Answer to Dik T. Winter
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/09
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Virgil
6/20/09
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