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Topic: michelson morley experiment questions
Replies: 323   Last Post: Jul 25, 2009 6:28 PM

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June R Harton

Posts: 246
Registered: 12/13/04
Re: michelson morley experiment questions
Posted: Jul 12, 2009 2:40 AM
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"Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:00746dc2$0$9720$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:drV5m.3529$Ad2.756@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>
>> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:0072c8fe$0$9695$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:p1B5m.6800$j84.3422@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>
>>>> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:0265806a$0$9594$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

>>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:bCf5m.14667$iz2.3510@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter Webb" <webbfamily@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4a542eb5$0$3253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:DyV4m.3588$vO4.2215@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:5qJ4m.177335$DP1.52465@attbi_s22...

>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:aAd4m.772139$yE1.407749@attbi_s21...

>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, Spirit, how do you deal with the fact that there has yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be an observation that contradicts a prediction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Special
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Relativity? Lack of simultaneity included.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam, as I told you, absolute simultaneity is all around you. It
>>>>>>>>>>>> takes no
>>>>>>>>>>>> experiment to see it. You only have to look.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth

>>>>>>>>>>> Betcha can't provide any examples of "absolute simultaneity".
>>>>>>>>>>> Betcha!

>>>>>>>>>> ...........................................................................................................
>>>>>>>>>> .............................................................................................................
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You and me now, Sam.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are sadly mistaken --- That's not simultaneity. No wonder
>>>>>>>>> you are having trouble with the concept, Spirit.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sam, I was on the train when you read my email and wrote
>>>>>>>> your response.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Think before you speak.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, I know more completely about Relativity than you
>>>>>>>> can possibly imagine, Sam,

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the question is whether your knowledge is correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It obviously isn't. What you believe is not borne out by direct
>>>>>>> experiment. It is wrong.

>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The physical universe all around you is it's own experiment, you just
>>>>>> have to open your eyes to see it. And no, my understanding is
>>>>>> completely
>>>>>> correct. Since things change, they change from an earlier condition.

>>>>>
>>>>> Just like they do in SR
>>>>>

>>>>>> That condition has ceased to be. Similar to the future, it is yet to
>>>>>> be.
>>>>>> When SR falsely posits lack of simultaneity _the universe_ falsifies
>>>>>> it.

>>>>>
>>>>> The universe shows that time dilation does indeed happen. How does it
>>>>> falsify lack of simultaneity?

>>>>
>>>> It's not the time dilation that causes lack of simultaneity.
>>>> Time dilation simply
>>>> means things age/change slower from the viewpoint of different frames.

>>>
>>> That means you can get different amounts of proper time elapsing
>>>

>>>> In LET it would be one way only. In SR it gets you into Twin
>>>> Paradox.

>>>
>>> No . LET has the same result as SR.

>>
>> Yes, it does, but it recognizes the "actual" motion of the object
>> in the Ether so _not_ relative.

>
> And that, of course, is completely indistinguishable from what SR says we
> would observe to happen
>

>>>>>> There is no block universe which lack of simultaneity demands.
>>>>>
>>>>> SR is all about cause and effect

>>>>
>>>> It has not been fully understood till recently.

>>>
>>> What ?
>>>

>>>> It makes a blockhead universe
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>

>>>> which means all past and all future are already there.
>>>
>>> What does 'already there' mean. The future cannot already be here or it
>>> is not future .. it is present.
>>>
>>> Though one may say that some point that someone's "now" may correspond
>>> to what will be the future for some remote location, that doesn't mean
>>> that future somehow already exists. It still hasn't happened in that
>>> remote location and free will and change (if such things exist) still
>>> shape what that future will be.
>>>

>>>> Talk about God...the SR'ians are about the most religious
>>>> anti-religious people you could come across.

>>>
>>> No thanks .. not interested in talking about gods.

>>
>> No, you haven't inderstood Einstein's lack of simultaneity.

>
> I have .. thanks
>

>> Study these carefully:
>
> I have .. thanks
>

>> Andromeda paradox in here:
>>
>> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Special_Relativity/Simultaneity,_time_dilation_and_length_contraction#The_relativity_of_simultaneity_and_the_Andromeda_paradox
>>
>> Captain Kirk in here:
>>
>> http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node77.html#SECTION03122200000000000000
>>
>> Both those link say you are living in a block universe with the future
>> already there. It is false.

>
> Yes .. it is false that they say we live in a block universe, though that
> is one possibility as it always has been. Not that it makes any
> difference anyway.
>
> Just because my 'now' may be projected to be a point in the future for
> someone else doesn't mean that that future exists yet. Only that when it
> does, it will be part of my 'now'. It doesn't remove free will (if there
> is such a thing anyway). Its like saying that the infinite axes of a
> frame of reference mean that the universe is infinitely large because they
> axes are infinitely long. Points away from me in my 'now' have no
> influence whatsoever on my 'now' and my decisions 'now', nor do I have any
> influence on them. Everyone's proper time flows along as a series of
> 'nows'. It is not until they become past that they can influence my
> 'now'.


Stop being an idiot. The event exists in the future and past of the various
frames.
Confront it.


Spirit of Truth




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6/26/09
Read Re: michelson morley experiment questions
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