"Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:QSv6m.7424$cl4.2864@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com... > > "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:00756702$0$9716$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... >> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message >> news:tHf6m.11519$lv5.10207@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com... >>> >>> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message >>> news:00746dc2$0$9720$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... >>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message >>>> news:drV5m.3529$Ad2.756@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>> >>>>> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:0072c8fe$0$9695$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... >>>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:p1B5m.6800$j84.3422@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:0265806a$0$9594$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... >>>>>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:bCf5m.14667$iz2.3510@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Peter Webb" <webbfamily@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote in >>>>>>>>> message news:4a542eb5$0$3253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:DyV4m.3588$vO4.2215@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:5qJ4m.177335$DP1.52465@attbi_s22... >>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:aAd4m.772139$yE1.407749@attbi_s21... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, Spirit, how do you deal with the fact that there has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be an observation that contradicts a prediction of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Special >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Relativity? Lack of simultaneity included. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam, as I told you, absolute simultaneity is all around you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It takes no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiment to see it. You only have to look. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Betcha can't provide any examples of "absolute >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simultaneity". Betcha! >>>>>>>>>>>>> ........................................................................................................... >>>>>>>>>>>>> ............................................................................................................. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You and me now, Sam. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You are sadly mistaken --- That's not simultaneity. No wonder >>>>>>>>>>>> you are having trouble with the concept, Spirit. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sam, I was on the train when you read my email and wrote >>>>>>>>>>> your response. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Think before you speak. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, I know more completely about Relativity than you >>>>>>>>>>> can possibly imagine, Sam, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But the question is whether your knowledge is correct. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It obviously isn't. What you believe is not borne out by direct >>>>>>>>>> experiment. It is wrong. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The physical universe all around you is it's own experiment, you >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> have to open your eyes to see it. And no, my understanding is >>>>>>>>> completely >>>>>>>>> correct. Since things change, they change from an earlier >>>>>>>>> condition. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just like they do in SR >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That condition has ceased to be. Similar to the future, it is yet >>>>>>>>> to be. >>>>>>>>> When SR falsely posits lack of simultaneity _the universe_ >>>>>>>>> falsifies it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The universe shows that time dilation does indeed happen. How does >>>>>>>> it falsify lack of simultaneity? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's not the time dilation that causes lack of simultaneity. >>>>>>> Time dilation simply >>>>>>> means things age/change slower from the viewpoint of different >>>>>>> frames. >>>>>> >>>>>> That means you can get different amounts of proper time elapsing >>>>>> >>>>>>> In LET it would be one way only. In SR it gets you into Twin >>>>>>> Paradox. >>>>>> >>>>>> No . LET has the same result as SR. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, it does, but it recognizes the "actual" motion of the object >>>>> in the Ether so _not_ relative. >>>> >>>> And that, of course, is completely indistinguishable from what SR says >>>> we would observe to happen >>>> >>>>>>>>> There is no block universe which lack of simultaneity demands. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> SR is all about cause and effect >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It has not been fully understood till recently. >>>>>> >>>>>> What ? >>>>>> >>>>>>> It makes a blockhead universe >>>>>> >>>>>> Why? >>>>>> >>>>>>> which means all past and all future are already there. >>>>>> >>>>>> What does 'already there' mean. The future cannot already be here or >>>>>> it is not future .. it is present. >>>>>> >>>>>> Though one may say that some point that someone's "now" may >>>>>> correspond to what will be the future for some remote location, that >>>>>> doesn't mean that future somehow already exists. It still hasn't >>>>>> happened in that remote location and free will and change (if such >>>>>> things exist) still shape what that future will be. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Talk about God...the SR'ians are about the most religious >>>>>>> anti-religious people you could come across. >>>>>> >>>>>> No thanks .. not interested in talking about gods. >>>>> >>>>> No, you haven't inderstood Einstein's lack of simultaneity. >>>> >>>> I have .. thanks >>>> >>>>> Study these carefully: >>>> >>>> I have .. thanks >>>> >>>>> Andromeda paradox in here: >>>>> >>>>> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Special_Relativity/Simultaneity,_time_dilation_and_length_contraction#The_relativity_of_simultaneity_and_the_Andromeda_paradox >>>>> >>>>> Captain Kirk in here: >>>>> >>>>> http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node77.html#SECTION03122200000000000000 >>>>> >>>>> Both those link say you are living in a block universe with the future >>>>> already there. It is false. >>>> >>>> Yes .. it is false that they say we live in a block universe, though >>>> that is one possibility as it always has been. Not that it makes any >>>> difference anyway. >>>> >>>> Just because my 'now' may be projected to be a point in the future for >>>> someone else doesn't mean that that future exists yet. Only that when >>>> it does, it will be part of my 'now'. It doesn't remove free will (if >>>> there is such a thing anyway). Its like saying that the infinite axes >>>> of a frame of reference mean that the universe is infinitely large >>>> because they axes are infinitely long. Points away from me in my 'now' >>>> have no influence whatsoever on my 'now' and my decisions 'now', nor do >>>> I have any influence on them. Everyone's proper time flows along as a >>>> series of 'nows'. It is not until they become past that they can >>>> influence my 'now'. >>> >>> Stop being an idiot. >> >> I'm not being an idiot. > > > You ARE being an idiot because you are being ignorant even > when the information is in front of your face..
What information is that? You've done some arm waving and philosophizing about how you think the world is. But we are talking physics here .. not philosophy.
> You need to restudy the above links and figure out what it is you > are reading about.
I have
> I suggest you look up definitions you do not > understand so that you can GET the meaning of what you are reading.
I understand them just fine thanks.
> Lack of simultaneiety = a blockhead universe
Is that where you come from .. the universe of blockheads? :):)
> and you don't even > understand lack of simultaneity yet!
There is no lack of simultaneity .. there is different simultaneity in different frames of reference. There is no absolute simultaneity. That does not mean no simultaneity at all.
What matters is that events that have not yet happened cannot influence events happening here and now. Effect cannot precede cause. And SR ensures this. The future for a given observer is those events, that have not yet happened, but which the observer could possibly influence now. The past is those events, that no longer exist, that could possibly influence the observer now.
