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Topic: michelson morley experiment questions
Replies: 323   Last Post: Jul 25, 2009 6:28 PM

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John Doe

Posts: 298
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: michelson morley experiment questions
Posted: Jul 12, 2009 9:58 PM
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"Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:atw6m.7441$cl4.5269@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:00766aa6$0$9676$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>> news:QSv6m.7424$cl4.2864@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>
>>> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>> news:00756702$0$9716$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:tHf6m.11519$lv5.10207@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>
>>>>> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:00746dc2$0$9720$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

>>>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:drV5m.3529$Ad2.756@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:0072c8fe$0$9695$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

>>>>>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:p1B5m.6800$j84.3422@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Whoever" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:0265806a$0$9594$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

>>>>>>>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:bCf5m.14667$iz2.3510@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Peter Webb" <webbfamily@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> message news:4a542eb5$0$3253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Spirit of Truth" <juneharton@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:DyV4m.3588$vO4.2215@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:5qJ4m.177335$DP1.52465@attbi_s22...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:aAd4m.772139$yE1.407749@attbi_s21...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, Spirit, how do you deal with the fact that there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be an observation that contradicts a prediction of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Relativity? Lack of simultaneity included.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam, as I told you, absolute simultaneity is all around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you. It takes no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiment to see it. You only have to look.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Betcha can't provide any examples of "absolute
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simultaneity". Betcha!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...........................................................................................................
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .............................................................................................................
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You and me now, Sam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit of Truth

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are sadly mistaken --- That's not simultaneity. No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are having trouble with the concept, Spirit.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam, I was on the train when you read my email and wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your response.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think before you speak.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I know more completely about Relativity than you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can possibly imagine, Sam,

>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But the question is whether your knowledge is correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It obviously isn't. What you believe is not borne out by direct
>>>>>>>>>>>> experiment. It is wrong.

>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The physical universe all around you is it's own experiment, you
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> have to open your eyes to see it. And no, my understanding is
>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>> correct. Since things change, they change from an earlier
>>>>>>>>>>> condition.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just like they do in SR
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> That condition has ceased to be. Similar to the future, it is
>>>>>>>>>>> yet to be.
>>>>>>>>>>> When SR falsely posits lack of simultaneity _the universe_
>>>>>>>>>>> falsifies it.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The universe shows that time dilation does indeed happen. How
>>>>>>>>>> does it falsify lack of simultaneity?

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not the time dilation that causes lack of simultaneity.
>>>>>>>>> Time dilation simply
>>>>>>>>> means things age/change slower from the viewpoint of different
>>>>>>>>> frames.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That means you can get different amounts of proper time elapsing
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> In LET it would be one way only. In SR it gets you into Twin
>>>>>>>>> Paradox.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No . LET has the same result as SR.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it does, but it recognizes the "actual" motion of the object
>>>>>>> in the Ether so _not_ relative.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> And that, of course, is completely indistinguishable from what SR
>>>>>> says we would observe to happen
>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> There is no block universe which lack of simultaneity demands.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SR is all about cause and effect

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It has not been fully understood till recently.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What ?
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> It makes a blockhead universe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> which means all past and all future are already there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What does 'already there' mean. The future cannot already be here
>>>>>>>> or it is not future .. it is present.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Though one may say that some point that someone's "now" may
>>>>>>>> correspond to what will be the future for some remote location,
>>>>>>>> that doesn't mean that future somehow already exists. It still
>>>>>>>> hasn't happened in that remote location and free will and change
>>>>>>>> (if such things exist) still shape what that future will be.
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Talk about God...the SR'ians are about the most religious
>>>>>>>>> anti-religious people you could come across.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No thanks .. not interested in talking about gods.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, you haven't inderstood Einstein's lack of simultaneity.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have .. thanks
>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Study these carefully:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have .. thanks
>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Andromeda paradox in here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Special_Relativity/Simultaneity,_time_dilation_and_length_contraction#The_relativity_of_simultaneity_and_the_Andromeda_paradox
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Captain Kirk in here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node77.html#SECTION03122200000000000000
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both those link say you are living in a block universe with the
>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>> already there. It is false.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes .. it is false that they say we live in a block universe, though
>>>>>> that is one possibility as it always has been. Not that it makes any
>>>>>> difference anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just because my 'now' may be projected to be a point in the future
>>>>>> for someone else doesn't mean that that future exists yet. Only that
>>>>>> when it does, it will be part of my 'now'. It doesn't remove free
>>>>>> will (if there is such a thing anyway). Its like saying that the
>>>>>> infinite axes of a frame of reference mean that the universe is
>>>>>> infinitely large because they axes are infinitely long. Points away
>>>>>> from me in my 'now' have no influence whatsoever on my 'now' and my
>>>>>> decisions 'now', nor do I have any influence on them. Everyone's
>>>>>> proper time flows along as a series of 'nows'. It is not until they
>>>>>> become past that they can influence my 'now'.

>>>>>
>>>>> Stop being an idiot.

>>>>
>>>> I'm not being an idiot.

>>>
>>>
>>> You ARE being an idiot because you are being ignorant even
>>> when the information is in front of your face..

>>
>> What information is that? You've done some arm waving and philosophizing
>> about how you think the world is. But we are talking physics here .. not
>> philosophy.
>>

>>> You need to restudy the above links and figure out what it is you
>>> are reading about.

>>
>> I have
>>

>>> I suggest you look up definitions you do not
>>> understand so that you can GET the meaning of what you are reading.

>>
>> I understand them just fine thanks.
>>

>>> Lack of simultaneiety = a blockhead universe
>>
>> Is that where you come from .. the universe of blockheads? :):)
>>

>>> and you don't even
>>> understand lack of simultaneity yet!

>>
>> There is no lack of simultaneity .. there is different simultaneity in
>> different frames of reference. There is no absolute simultaneity. That
>> does not mean no simultaneity at all.
>>
>> What matters is that events that have not yet happened cannot influence
>> events happening here and now. Effect cannot precede cause. And SR
>> ensures this. The future for a given observer is those events, that have
>> not yet happened, but which the observer could possibly influence now.
>> The past is those events, that no longer exist, that could possibly
>> influence the observer now.

>
> Stop being such an uncompromising idiot.


Its so amusing, when cranks accuse others of their own failings.

> Go read Brian Greene's
> Best Sellers and when you understand a little about science come
> back and then open your at the moment idiot mouth.


Perhaps you could try talking science instead of hand-waving philosophy, and
we might get somewhere.




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