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Topic: michelson morley experiment questions
Replies: 323   Last Post: Jul 25, 2009 6:28 PM

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bsr3997@my-deja.com

Posts: 54
Registered: 12/22/05
Re: michelson morley experiment questions
Posted: Jul 14, 2009 10:07 PM
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On Jul 14, 8:05 pm, "Whoever" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> "Bruce Richmond" <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
> news:95471494-cc92-4d8c-b988-2de404f0dda8@i6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>

> > On Jul 14, 4:11 am, "Whoever" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> "Spirit of Truth" <junehar...@prodigy.net> wrote in
> >> messagenews:HHV6m.15653$bq1.7920@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...

>
> >> > "Whoever" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:0077f42c$0$9680$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

> >> >> "Spirit of Truth" <junehar...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> >> >>news:vlT6m.10982$Jb1.3792@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...

>
> >> >>> "Sam Wormley" <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> >> >>>news:hJz6m.782029$yE1.228877@attbi_s21...

> >> >>>> Spirit of Truth wrote:
>
> >> >>>>> Stop being such an uncompromising idiot. Go read Brian Greene's
> >> >>>>> Best Sellers and when you understand a little about science come
> >> >>>>> back and then open your at the moment idiot mouth.

>
> >> >>>>> Spirit of Truth
>
> >> >>>>   That's really interesting that you suggest reading Brian Greene.
>
> >> >>>>   1. Brian Green gets relativity right! You don't!
>
> >> >>>>   2. Greene's book are loaded with "ifs" and "what ifs" and most lay
> >> >>>>      people cannot sort out the science from the speculation. I
> >> >>>> think
> >> >>>>      you are one of those people, Spirit!

>
> >> >>> No, Sam. if you have Greene's books look up block universe
> >> >>> which appears in both of them.

>
> >> >>> I have made no error whatsoever in my statements to you.
>
> >> >> Can you supply an excerpt.  I don't have access to the book you are
> >> >> referring to.

>
> >> >> BTW: You're still not said WHY the universe cannot be block, and how
> >> >> you
> >> >> could tell whether or not it is.  Other than we have to take it on
> >> >> faith
> >> >> and your assurances.

>
> >> > I don't have time to do Greene for you, but have a read of the
> >> > following
> >> > conversation, I hope it posts OK:

>
> >> Thanks
>
> >> BTW: You do know that in SR if you and another observer are at the same
> >> place now, regardless of your relative motion, you will experience
> >> exactly
> >> the same universe at that 'now'.  Things the you see as simultaneous,
> >> they
> >> will see as simultaneous.

>
> > When I saw this I had to double check to make sure you had written the
> > above and that you were not quoting someone else.  The above is not
> > correct.  The obvious example is the train experiment.  When M and M'
> > coincide they are at the same place.  For M the strikes are happening
> > at A and B now.  For M' the strike already happen at B before he met
> > M, while the strike at A has yet to happen.

>
> But they EXPERIENCE the same things.  What you experience is what you sense
> .. what you sense is what happens where you are .. not at some other
> location.


Somehow I don't think many readers would interpert "same universe" as
meaning just the event happening at that one location the instant they
are together. That is a mighty small universe. If you mean
everything they can see from that spot at that one instant I think you
will find things differ. I will explain further down. Also when we
talk of simultaneity in SR we are usually speaking of events seperated
by space. Technically I suppose you can say an event is simultaneous
with itself, but that's begging for confusion.

> Indeed, it is impossible for something happening now somewhere
> else to affect you.  These are events in space-time at your location.  And
> the speed of an observer does not change events at some location.  That's
> why I used the word experience.


I think if you get detailed enough about what they see their
experiences are different even when at the same spot. Again, further
down.

> Perhaps it would be a little clearer if I worded it as "you will have the
> same experience of the universe at the 'now'".
>
> An example is that if two observers meet, travelling at different speeds
> (maybe one is walking past), .. for each of them a remote point at that time
> in their mutual x-direction in (say) another galaxy will correspond to
> different points in time in that remote galaxy. However, they will both have
> identical experiences of that galaxy.  So, if there was a telescope where
> they pass, they would each see the same image of the galaxy from a single
> time. Even though what they consider (but not experience) as 'now' in that
> galaxy is different times.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Try looking away from the x axis. Let's say N' is moving parallel to
M' and is perpendicular to M'. In the path of N' lies N some distance
in the -x direction from the y axis. When N' coincides with N a flash
is emitted. The flash arrives at the location of M and M' just as
they coincide.

M will see the flash coming from N, who is to the - side of the y
axis. He will also see N' at that location. M' will see the flash
come from N', who is perpendicular to him on the y' axis. M' will
also see N at the flash.

So even though M and M' agree that N and N' were together when the
flash happen, they don't agree on where the flash took place. And by
that I don't mean the grid coordinates as reported by other observers,
but what M and M' would see of distant events with their own eyes. If
M and M' both point their (narrow field of view) telescopes
perpendicular to the x axis M' will see the flash but M will not.

Bruce


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7/14/09
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7/25/09
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7/2/09
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7/11/09
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7/16/09
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7/17/09
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glbrad01
7/17/09
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glbrad01
7/17/09
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7/3/09
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7/3/09
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6/28/09
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6/28/09
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6/29/09
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6/29/09
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6/29/09
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6/29/09
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6/30/09
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6/29/09
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7/1/09
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NoEinstein
7/1/09
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Little P
6/26/09
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6/26/09
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6/26/09
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6/26/09
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6/28/09
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