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Topic: Another AC anomaly?
Replies: 280   Last Post: Dec 27, 2009 3:53 PM

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Bill Taylor

Posts: 465
Registered: 12/8/04
Re: Another AC anomaly?
Posted: Nov 25, 2009 11:33 PM
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"Jesse F. Hughes" <je...@phiwumbda.org> wrote:

> Well, I'm not at all sure that there's no problem with forward
> supertasks. Surely, it is not difficult to come up with a
> problematic case.


Yes, the worth of supertasks as indicators of philosophical
concerns is very much up in the air. Some seem relevant, others
just stupid. Perhaps (temporally) well-ordered supertasks are
more sensible than most. But I doubt that's all there is to it.

One of my favourites is this; for naturals n:- compare...

a) At each time 1 - 1/n, add balls numbered
2^(n-1) to 2^n - 1 to the pot, and remove ball number n.

b) At each time 1 - 1/n, add 2^(n-1) - 1 balls to the pot, and
replace the numbering stickers in agreement with case (a).

After time 1:
the final situation in case (a) is that the pot is empty.
in case (b), the pot has infinitely many balls with no stickers!

And yet at any intermediate time the two cases are indistinguishable!

This sort of example shows that even omega-supertasks
can be remarkably silly!

> Now alter the situation slightly. At each step, again place 10 balls
> into the vase and then remove one ball, but remove the ball
> *randomly*. At the end, the vase may contain any number of balls


Actually NOT. The pot will be empty(!) [with probability 1]

For any ball, the probability of it being removed is like a harmonic
series, which sums to oo, which by Borel-Cantelli means it will
happen for sure. [meaning probability one, as always here]

HOWEVER - if you add (say) 1, 4, 9, 16... balls per turn,
and again remove one at random, each turn, then (Borel-Cantelli)
each ball has a positive probability of being left behind.

It is an interesting problem in probability generating functions
to work out the individual proabilities for each ball,
and the expected number, left in the pot at the end!

-- Borellic Bill


Date Subject Author
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Jesse F. Hughes
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Herman Jurjus
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
master1729
11/25/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
T.H. Ray
11/24/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
11/25/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Bill Taylor
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Daryl McCullough
11/30/09
Read What's wrong with supertasks? (was Re: Another AC anomaly?)
Herman Jurjus
12/1/09
Read Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
Marshall
12/1/09
Read using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes of
Bentley College
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
Seth Breidbart
12/1/09
Read Re: using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes
of Bentley College
Marshall
12/2/09
Read Re: using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes
of Bentley College
Marshall
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/28/09
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William Hughes
11/26/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/28/09
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Virgil
11/29/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/29/09
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Virgil
11/29/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
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Virgil
11/29/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/26/09
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LauLuna
11/26/09
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William Hughes
11/26/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/29/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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Alan Smaill
11/29/09
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William Hughes
11/30/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Alan Smaill
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Dik T. Winter
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
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Dik T. Winter
11/30/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
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Virgil
12/1/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/1/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/1/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
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William Hughes
12/1/09
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Virgil
12/1/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
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Virgil
12/1/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/1/09
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Virgil
12/1/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/1/09
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Virgil
12/2/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/2/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/2/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/2/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/2/09
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Virgil
12/3/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/3/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
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K_h
12/7/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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K_h
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/9/09
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K_h
12/9/09
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Virgil
12/9/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/9/09
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Virgil
12/9/09
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K_h
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/9/09
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K_h
12/9/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/15/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/15/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/15/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/15/09
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K_h
12/16/09
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Virgil
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
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Virgil
12/17/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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Virgil
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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YBM
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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Quaestor
12/18/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/18/09
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Virgil
12/18/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/22/09
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Virgil
12/18/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
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Quaestor
12/21/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/21/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/21/09
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Marshall
12/21/09
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Virgil
12/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
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Virgil
12/11/09
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K_h
12/11/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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K_h
12/11/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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Jesse F. Hughes
12/12/09
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K_h
12/12/09
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K_h
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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K_h
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
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Virgil
12/3/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/3/09
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Virgil
12/7/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/15/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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T.H. Ray
12/17/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/4/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
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Virgil
12/4/09
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Marshall
12/7/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Marshall
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/11/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
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Virgil
12/12/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
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Virgil
12/12/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
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Virgil
12/12/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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george
12/12/09
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Virgil
12/12/09
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george
12/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/13/09
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Virgil
12/15/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
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Virgil
12/17/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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Quaestor
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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Quaestor
12/18/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/18/09
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Virgil
12/18/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
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Marshall
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/19/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/22/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/22/09
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Marshall
12/27/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/21/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/21/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/21/09
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Virgil
12/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/27/09
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Marshall
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/27/09
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Ralf Bader
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/13/09
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Virgil
12/4/09
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K_h
12/4/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
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Virgil
12/4/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/5/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/6/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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Carsten Schultz
12/2/09
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Virgil
12/1/09
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george
12/1/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/30/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil

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