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Topic: Another AC anomaly?
Replies: 280   Last Post: Dec 27, 2009 3:53 PM

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george

Posts: 800
Registered: 8/5/08
Re: Another AC anomaly?
Posted: Dec 1, 2009 2:30 PM
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> George Greene <gree...@email.unc.edu> writes:
> >  Basically, any infinity of steps that has
> > a last element will have an answer to this question.
> > Any infinite sequence that does not have a last element
> > needs to get its "answer" from some NON-standard convention.


On Nov 24, 2:30 pm, "Jesse F. Hughes" <je...@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
> No, that's not enough.
>
> Suppose that the light begins "on", at each step, I toggle the state.


That was NOT the statement of the problem.
The statement of the problem was
>> you switch a light bulb on and off;

This is inviting people to map to real-world binary light-switches,
NOT abstract unary togglers! If the light switch actually has
positions MARKED on and off (here they are usually up and down),
then this IS enough.
But of course you are right in principle that if "toggling the state"
AS OPPOSED to
"turning on and off" is what is going on, then, yes, we are still
confused.

> It seems that you agree that after omega-many steps, we do not know
> whether the light is on or off.  But if we do not know at omega
> whether the light is on or off, then surely we do not know whether it
> is on or off at omega + 1.
>
> Right?


Right, if the switch just toggles.
But if the switch actually has on and off positions and you are
just setting it to one, at every step, well, that's different.
Oddly.
I mean, it seems like it SHOULDN'T be different.


> To put it differently, you claim "any infinity of steps that has
> a last element will have an answer to this question."  w + 1 is an
> "infinity of steps" with a last element, but if we have an answer at
> w + 1, then we also have an answer at w.


Well, if you're toggling, yes.
If you're turning on and off, then, well, it might still be possible
to turn
(e.g.) on, at w+1, even if you didn't know where you were at w.


Date Subject Author
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Jesse F. Hughes
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Herman Jurjus
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
master1729
11/25/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
T.H. Ray
11/24/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
11/25/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Bill Taylor
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Daryl McCullough
11/30/09
Read What's wrong with supertasks? (was Re: Another AC anomaly?)
Herman Jurjus
12/1/09
Read Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
Marshall
12/1/09
Read using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes of
Bentley College
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
Seth Breidbart
12/1/09
Read Re: using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes
of Bentley College
Marshall
12/2/09
Read Re: using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes
of Bentley College
Marshall
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/26/09
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LauLuna
11/26/09
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William Hughes
11/26/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Alan Smaill
11/29/09
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William Hughes
11/30/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Alan Smaill
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Dik T. Winter
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
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Dik T. Winter
11/30/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/1/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
12/1/09
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Virgil
12/1/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/2/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/2/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/2/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/2/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/2/09
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Virgil
12/3/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/3/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
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K_h
12/7/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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K_h
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/9/09
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K_h
12/9/09
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Virgil
12/9/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/9/09
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Virgil
12/9/09
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K_h
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/9/09
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K_h
12/9/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/15/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/15/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/15/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/15/09
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K_h
12/16/09
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Virgil
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
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Virgil
12/17/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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Virgil
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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YBM
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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Quaestor
12/18/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/18/09
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Virgil
12/18/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/22/09
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Virgil
12/18/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
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Quaestor
12/21/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/21/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/21/09
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Marshall
12/21/09
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Virgil
12/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
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Virgil
12/11/09
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K_h
12/11/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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K_h
12/11/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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Jesse F. Hughes
12/12/09
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K_h
12/12/09
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K_h
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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K_h
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
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Virgil
12/3/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/3/09
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Virgil
12/7/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/15/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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T.H. Ray
12/17/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/4/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
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Virgil
12/4/09
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Marshall
12/7/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
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Virgil
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Marshall
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/11/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
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Virgil
12/12/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/12/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
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Virgil
12/12/09
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Marshall
12/12/09
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george
12/12/09
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Virgil
12/12/09
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george
12/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/13/09
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Virgil
12/15/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
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Virgil
12/17/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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Quaestor
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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Quaestor
12/18/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/18/09
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Virgil
12/18/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
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Marshall
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/19/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/19/09
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Virgil
12/22/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/22/09
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Marshall
12/27/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/21/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/21/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/21/09
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Virgil
12/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/27/09
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Marshall
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/27/09
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Ralf Bader
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/13/09
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Virgil
12/4/09
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K_h
12/4/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
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Virgil
12/4/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/5/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/6/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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Carsten Schultz
12/2/09
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Virgil
12/1/09
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george
12/1/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/30/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil

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