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Topic: Another AC anomaly?
Replies: 280   Last Post: Dec 27, 2009 3:53 PM

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Dik T. Winter

Posts: 7,899
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Another AC anomaly?
Posted: Dec 7, 2009 10:37 AM
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In article <yvCdnW28VrXBqIXWnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@giganews.com> "K_h" <KHolmes@SX729.com> writes:
...
> > > > When you mean with your statement about N:
> > > > N = union{n is natural} {n}
> > > > then that is not a limit. Check the definitions about
> > > > it.

> > >
> > > It is a limit. That is independent from any definition.

> >
> > It is not a limit. Nowhere in the definition of that
> > union a limit is used
> > or mentioned.

>
> Question. Isn't this simply a question of language?


Not at all. When you define N as an infinite union there is no limit
involved, there is even no sequence involved. N follows immediately
from the axioms.

> My
> book on set theory defines omega, w, as follows:
>
> Define w to be the set N of natural numbers with its
> usual order
> < (given by membership in ZF).
>
> Now w is a limit ordinal so the ordered set N is, in the
> ordinal sense, a limit. Of course w is not a member of N
> becasuse then N would be a member of itself (not allowed by
> foundation).


Note here that N (the set of natural numbers) is *not* defined using a
limit at all. That w is called a limit ordinal is a definition of the
term "limit ordinal". It does not mean that the definition you use to
define it actually uses a limit. (And if I remember right, a limit
ordinal is an ordinal that has no predecessor, see, again no limit
involved.)
--
dik t. winter, cwi, science park 123, 1098 xg amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/



Date Subject Author
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Jesse F. Hughes
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Herman Jurjus
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
master1729
11/25/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
T.H. Ray
11/24/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
11/25/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Bill Taylor
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Daryl McCullough
11/30/09
Read What's wrong with supertasks? (was Re: Another AC anomaly?)
Herman Jurjus
12/1/09
Read Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
Marshall
12/1/09
Read using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes of
Bentley College
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
Seth Breidbart
12/1/09
Read Re: using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes
of Bentley College
Marshall
12/2/09
Read Re: using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes
of Bentley College
Marshall
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
LauLuna
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Alan Smaill
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Alan Smaill
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/2/09
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Virgil
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/3/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
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K_h
12/7/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
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K_h
12/8/09
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Virgil
12/9/09
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K_h
12/9/09
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Virgil
12/9/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/9/09
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Virgil
12/9/09
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K_h
12/10/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/9/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/9/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/16/09
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Virgil
12/16/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
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YBM
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Quaestor
12/18/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/22/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/22/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Quaestor
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Jesse F. Hughes
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/11/09
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Virgil
12/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
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Virgil
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
T.H. Ray
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/13/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/13/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Quaestor
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Quaestor
12/18/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/22/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/22/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/27/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/21/09
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Virgil
12/22/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/27/09
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Ralf Bader
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/13/09
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Virgil
12/4/09
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K_h
12/4/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
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Virgil
12/4/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/5/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/6/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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Carsten Schultz
12/2/09
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Virgil
12/1/09
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george
12/1/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/30/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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William Hughes
11/27/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
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Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil

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