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Topic: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Replies: 74   Last Post: Jul 19, 2010 11:53 AM

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kirby urner

Posts: 3,690
Registered: 11/29/05
Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Posted: Dec 8, 2009 8:29 AM
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On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Haim <hpipik@netzero.com> wrote:
> Kirby Urner Posted: Dec 7, 2009 11:16 AM
>

>>Note that over on edu-sig I suggest math teachers
>>are "losing focus" when I point back to this thread on
>>math-teach:
>>
>>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2009-December/009693.html


<< snip >>

>
> Kirby,
>
>   Your criticism is on point.  I note, however, that you make your criticism in response to me.
>


Not to worry ol' sparring partner buddy. I pick on you cuz you're
obviously one of the lightning rods around here. You've risen to the
level of "blog character" which I can't say for everyone, so you
oughta feel honored, e.g.:

http://mybizmo.blogspot.com/2009/11/increasing-military-iq.html (mentions Haim)

>   Not long ago, John Threlkeld, in his only contribution to Math-Teach, made the same criticism about this forum, in the thread "Health care rationing, American-style" again in response to me.
>


I haven't delved into that one as much. There's a big part of me that
wants to stay out of domestic politics, even though I live in that
same so-called America (Amer Rican rhymes with Puerto Rican, Amerish
being some language other than English, per poet Gene Fowler (author
of 'Waking the Poet')).

I'm paying a huge premium for a huge deductible, think I should be
allowed to shop overseas for better plans, with the local system (e.g.
Providence) getting reimbursed from say Sweden or Russia (if that's
where I buy my care).

>   I am sure it has happened several other times, although I will not bother to sift through the archives, when a correspondent complained about an off-topic thread in response to one of my memos.
>


I was more making the sociological point that vast numbers are
scuttling under the rocks of climate debate, a relatively comfortable
scientific-sounding debate, a refuge from harder talks, more difficult
walks, such as what about math teaching.

>   Should I infer anything from this pattern?  Some political point being made, perhaps?  Nah!  It's probably just a coincidence.  You see, **I** NEVER initiate an off-topic thread.  Furthermore, I do not understand why the moderator allows these blatantly off-topic, and blatantly political, threads.
>


In the web archive, I'm seen replying to a top-most post with your name on it.

Climate models are not outside of math, one could argue, nor talk
about high premiums. It's all math-related, math being all-pervasive.
Coaching the opposing team, I'd suggest they point this out: there's
simply no getting away from math, no matter which way you turn, so
best to love it and even learn it a little (pretending there's an "it"
- -- the plural "maths" is likely better).

>   However, once one of these discussions is allowed, it is hard not to respond.  You see, I do not want people whose political persuasions run counter to, or different from, that of the transgressors, to feel unwelcome in this forum.  By responding to these unwelcome (certainly unwelcome by me) topics, I hope to make it evident that the political constituency of this forum is eclectic and catholic, and that everyone---everyone who wants to discuss math education---should feel safe in this cybernetic place.
>


Back to my earlier point that the global warming debate certainly
feels a lot safer to a lot of people than what's on the other
political channels. This isn't nuclear submarines off the coast, some
immanent invasion, some holocaust. And yet all of these are current
realities, somewhere. That politicians from all around the world are
willing two converge for like two whole weeks on this topic is proof
positive that we've found some political soup to their liking.
Yakking about the climate is going to be like chatting about the
weather: pervasive and for all future time (however long that ends up
being for little humans and their many tribes).

>   As for people who come with a political ax to grind, well, if we make it easy for them to grind their axes, it would only encourage them.  I do not want to make it easy for them.
>


Ax grinding tends to be easier than using said ax effectively, either
as a tool or weapon. Sometimes one wishes an interlocutor had ground
the ax more, as no work gets done in the field when the ax blade is
not sharp, and/or the fire is unlit.

Math-teach seems to be a safe place to experiment with positions, and
to abandon them sometimes. It's OK to make mistakes. Making
mistakes, admitting them, applying a correction, is a great way to
advance one's credibility in the eyes of one's peers.

It's a complete myth and fabrication that the Catholic Pope is
infallible and we've had more than one pontiff apologize and/or
express regret and remorse for past sins of the Church. Humans are
simply fallible, even the most mathematically minded of same.

>   In the mean time, I still await the start of a discussion on math pedagogy, per Haim's Challenge
> http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=6300122&tstart=0
>


I've started using this word "andragogy" (not my invention) to
distance myself from the "peda", not that I don't enjoy teaching
children (I do) but I do think adults remain an important and relevant
set of players on Spaceship Earth and deserve some attention as well.
The techniques one brings to teaching other adults may differ,
somewhat drastically at times, from those one brings to teaching
minors.

So I guess I'd be curious to know if you think we have no more tricks
to learn when it comes to the effective instruction and education of
adults.

Kirby

> Haim
> Keep The Change
>




- --
>>> from mars import math
http://www.wikieducator.org/Digital_Math


Date Subject Author
12/1/09
Read The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/1/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Domenico Rosa
12/1/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/2/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Pam
12/2/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
7/19/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Bishop, Wayne
12/3/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/4/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Ruth Walker
12/5/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/5/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/5/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Ruth Walker
12/5/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/6/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/7/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/7/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
kirby urner
12/7/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/8/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
kirby urner
12/7/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Ruth Walker
12/7/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Ruth Walker
12/8/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/8/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/9/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/14/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/15/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
kirby urner
12/15/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/17/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/17/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Anna Roys
12/17/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/17/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/18/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/18/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/18/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/18/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/19/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/20/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/20/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Michael Paul Goldenberg
12/20/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/20/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/21/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/21/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/21/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/21/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/22/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/22/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Greg Goodknight
12/22/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Michael Paul Goldenberg
12/22/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Bishop, Wayne
12/22/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/23/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Bishop, Wayne
12/22/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/22/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/23/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
GS Chandy
12/23/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/23/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Ruth Walker
12/28/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
GS Chandy
12/28/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
GS Chandy
12/29/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/30/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/30/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Michael Paul Goldenberg
12/30/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
GS Chandy
12/30/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/30/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
12/30/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
12/31/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
GS Chandy
12/31/09
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
1/21/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
1/27/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
1/27/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
2/4/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Paul A. Tanner III
1/27/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Steve Cooke
1/27/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Louis Talman
1/27/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Bishop, Wayne
1/27/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
1/27/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
1/28/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim
1/28/10
Read Re: The Worst Scientific Scandal of Our Generation
Haim

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