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Topic: Another AC anomaly?
Replies: 280   Last Post: Dec 27, 2009 3:53 PM

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Virgil

Posts: 870
Registered: 7/27/09
Re: Another AC anomaly?
Posted: Dec 11, 2009 4:14 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

In article <6cCdncLLYcT2nL_WnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"K_h" <KHolmes@SX729.com> wrote:

> "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Winter@cwi.nl> wrote in message
> news:KuFvyG.8r4@cwi.nl...

> > In article <Hv2dnXQ7LtSxUIPWnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
> > "K_h" <KHolmes@SX729.com> writes:

> > > "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Winter@cwi.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:KuAGqH.FrI@cwi.nl...

> > ...
> > > > Not at all. When you define N as an infinite union
> > > > there
> > > > is no limit
> > > > involved, there is even no sequence involved. N
> > > > follows
> > > > immediately
> > > > from the axioms.

> > >
> > > I disagree. Please note that I am not endorsing many of
> > > WM's claims. There are many equivalent ways of defining
> > > N.
> > > I have seen the definition that Rucker uses, in his
> > > infinity
> > > and mind book, in a number of books on mathematics and
> > > set
> > > theory: On page 240 of his book he defines:
> > >
> > > a_(n+1) = a_n Union {a_n}
> > >
> > > and then:
> > >
> > > a = limit a_n.

> >
> > But here an infinite union is *not* involved, that is the
> > crucial
> > difference. As stated, you may define N as a limit or
> > not, and
> > when it is defined as an infinite union as in:
> > N = union {1, 2, ..., n}
> > a limit is not involved.

>
> I'm not sure we're on the same page here. The limit set, a,
> does involve an infinite number of unions; this follows from
> a_(n+1)=a_nU{a_n}. But an infinite number of unions is also
> involved in the way I defined N as a limit in my previous
> post. So I guess I'm unclear what you mean when you write
> that N is defined as an infinite union by
> N=union{1,2,...,n}.



In ZF, no union can be shown to exist unless there is already a set of
all the sets being unioned.
Thus where 0 = {} and n+1 = {n,{n}}, one cannot form the union of all
naturals unless it is already known (by the axiom of infinity) to exist.


Date Subject Author
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Jesse F. Hughes
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Herman Jurjus
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
master1729
11/25/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
T.H. Ray
11/24/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
11/25/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Bill Taylor
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Daryl McCullough
11/30/09
Read What's wrong with supertasks? (was Re: Another AC anomaly?)
Herman Jurjus
12/1/09
Read Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
Marshall
12/1/09
Read using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes of
Bentley College
plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
Seth Breidbart
12/1/09
Read Re: using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes
of Bentley College
Marshall
12/2/09
Read Re: using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes
of Bentley College
Marshall
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
LauLuna
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Alan Smaill
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Alan Smaill
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/9/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/9/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/9/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/9/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/9/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/9/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/9/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
YBM
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Quaestor
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/22/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/22/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Quaestor
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/22/09
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Dik T. Winter
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Jesse F. Hughes
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
K_h
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/7/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/3/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
T.H. Ray
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/10/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/11/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/12/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/13/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/13/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/15/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/16/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Quaestor
12/17/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/17/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Quaestor
12/18/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/18/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/19/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/19/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/22/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/22/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/27/09
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ross.finlayson@gmail.com
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/21/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/22/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Dik T. Winter
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Ralf Bader
12/27/09
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Virgil
12/13/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/13/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/4/09
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K_h
12/4/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/5/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/5/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/6/09
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Virgil
12/5/09
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Carsten Schultz
12/2/09
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Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
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anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil

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