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Topic: Another AC anomaly?
Replies: 280   Last Post: Dec 27, 2009 3:53 PM

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Virgil

Posts: 870
Registered: 7/27/09
Re: Another AC anomaly?
Posted: Dec 11, 2009 4:22 PM
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In article
<d5a795ed-90bd-43bd-af2f-dd4ab437aca8@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
WM <mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:

> On 11 Dez., 03:50, "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Win...@cwi.nl> wrote:
> > In article
> > <fec95b83-39c5-4537-8cf7-b426b1779...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> WM
> > <mueck...@rz.fh-augsburg.de> writes:
> >  > On 10 Dez., 16:35, "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Win...@cwi.nl> wrote:
> >  > >  > Before 1908 there was quite a lot of mathematics possible.
> >  > >
> >  > > Yes, and since than quite a lot of newer mathematics has been made
> >  > > available.
> >  >
> >  > Most of it being rubbish.
> >
> > Nothing more than opinion while you have no idea what has been done in
> > mathematics since 1908.  Algebraic number theory is rubbish?

>
> The answer is an explicit no. "Most" here concerns the magnitude of
> numbers involved. There was much ado about inaccessible cardinals.


There has been much ado about all sorts of other things since 1908,
enough so that what has been said about cardinals is far from being
"most" of it.
> >
> >  > > Moreover, before 1908 mathematicians did use concepts without actually
> >  > > defining them, which is not so very good in my opinion.
> >  >
> >  > Cantor gave a definition of set. What is the present definition?
> >
> > Something that satisfies the axioms of ZF (when you are working within ZF).
> > It is similar to the concepts of group, ring and field.  Something that
> > satisfies those axioms is such a thing.  But I think you find all those
> > things rubbish.

>
> Why that? Group, ring and field are treated in my lessons.


Are they treated as badly as sets?
>
> >
> >  > >  > There is not even one single infinite path!
> >  > >
> >  > > Eh?  So there are no infinite paths in that tree?
> >  >
> >  > In fact no, but every path that you believe in is also in the tree,
> >  > i.e., you will not be able to miss a path in the tree.
> >
> > I believe in infinite paths, you state they are not in the tree.  So we
> > have a direct contradiction to your assertion.

>
> You believe in infinite paths. But you cannot name any digit that
> underpins your belief. Every digit that you name belongs to a finite
> path.

Every digit belongs to infinitely many finite path-segments, so why not
to any infinite path?

To get an infinite tree one must have something being infinite, so why
does WM claim that there can there be infinitely many paths in the tee
but not infinitely many nodes in any path? How is one such actual
infiniteness any more actual than any other?



> Every digit that is on the diagonal of Canbtor's list is a
> member of a finite initial segment of a real number.


Actually, any such list is not Cantor's but is presented to him by a
challenger, and he is challenged to find an unlisted sequence, which he
can always do, by applying a simple rule of construction.
>
> You can only argue about such digits.


On the contrary, we can argue about a good deal more, e.g., sequences of
digits.


> And all of them (in form of bits) are present in my binary tree.

But your tree has no paths (MAXIMAL sequences of bits with each bit
having exactly one child bit in the same path).


> >
> >  > >  >                                   But there is every path
> >  > >  > which you believe to be an infinite path!! Which one is missing in
> >  > >  > your opinion? Do you see that 1/3 is there?
> >  > >
> >  > > If there are no infinite paths in that tree, 1/3 is not in that tree.
> >  >
> >  > 1/3 does not exist as a path. But everything you can ask for will be
> >  > found in the tree.
> >  > Everything of that kind is in the tree.
> >
> > This makes no sense.  Every path in the tree (if all paths are finite) is
> > a rational with a power of 2 as the denominator.  So 1/3 does not exist
> > as a path.  In what way does it exist in the tree?

>
> It exists in that fundamentally arithmetical way: You can find every
> bit of it in my binary tree constructed from finite paths only.


I can find every letter in any book in an alphabet, but that does not
make any alphabet contain the book.



> You
> will fail to point to a digit of 1/3 that is missing in my tree.



You will fail to point to any letter of 'Hamlet' that is missing in my
alphabet.

> Therefore I claim that every number that exists is in the tree.

Therefore I claim that everything in 'Hamlet' is in my alphabet.

>
> Isn't a path a sequence of nodes, is it?


In any tree, if a path has a last node, then that node must be a leaf
node having no child nodes.

> Everey node of 1/3 (that you
> can prove to belong to 1/3) is in the tree.
>
>

> >  Similar for 'pi' and 'e'.
>
> Yes. Every digit is available on request.
>

> > So when you state that
> > the number of paths is countable that does not mean that the number of real
> > numbers is countable because there are apparently real numbers in your tree
> > without being a path.

>
> Wrong. Not only "apparantly" but provably (on request): Every digit of
> every real number that can be shown to exist exists in the tree.


Every letter in 'Hamlet' is in my alphabet.
>
> Or would you say that a number, every existing digit of which can be
> shown to exist in the tree too, is not in the tree as a path?


'Hamlet' is not "in" any alphabet, even though every letter in it is in
the alphabet. It is not the individual letters so much as the sequence
of them that creates 'Hamlet'.

Unless every sequence of digits in real number is in a path, that path
does not represent that number, and possibly not even when they are.


Date Subject Author
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Jesse F. Hughes
11/23/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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11/30/09
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12/1/09
Read Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
others; Ann Reeves Re: What's wrong with supertasks?
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12/1/09
Read Re: Jesse Hughes of Bentley College uses signature block to defame
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12/1/09
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of Bentley College
Marshall
12/2/09
Read Re: using signature-blocks to defame innocent people Re: Jesse Hughes
of Bentley College
Marshall
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/26/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/26/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/28/09
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11/28/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Marshall
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
ross.finlayson@gmail.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/29/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/26/09
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11/26/09
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11/26/09
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11/29/09
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11/27/09
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
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11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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12/1/09
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12/19/09
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12/22/09
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12/22/09
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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12/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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12/11/09
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12/7/09
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12/3/09
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12/3/09
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12/7/09
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12/7/09
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12/8/09
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12/8/09
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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12/7/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/7/09
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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12/8/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
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12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/4/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/5/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/5/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/5/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
12/6/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/5/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Carsten Schultz
12/2/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
george
12/1/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/30/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
anonymous.rubbertube@yahoo.com
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
William Hughes
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
11/27/09
Read Re: Another AC anomaly?
Virgil

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