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Topic: Preferred Frame Theory indistinguishable from SR
Replies: 204   Last Post: Jul 13, 2010 11:11 AM

 Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
 colp Posts: 31 Registered: 6/16/10
Re: Preferred Frame Theory indistinguishable from SR
Posted: Jul 7, 2010 6:43 PM

On Jul 7, 8:52 am, PD <thedraperfam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 6, 3:03 pm, colp <c...@solder.ath.cx> wrote:
>

> > On Jul 7, 3:07 am, PD <thedraperfam...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > The problem, you see, is that the comic-book statement you are using
> > > as your launching point belongs in COLP's Oversimplified Relativity.

>
> > It's not a comic book statement any more than Einstein's statement
> > that a moving clock lags behind a stationary clock is a comic book
> > statement.

>
> Not so. Einstein's statement included things that you have discounted.

I haven't discounted them.

> For example, he makes note of specific events, rather than just making
> the general statement that "moving clocks" run slow.

The description of the specific events only serves to illustrate that
it is the moving clock that runs slow compared to the stationary
clock.

> Furthermore, he
> makes EXPLICIT mention of the statement that the clocks at points A
> and B are initially synchronized IN THE K FRAME.

Assuming that they weren't synchonized in my general description of
"the moving clock runs slow" would be arbitrary and illogical.
Remember I was talking about _the_ clock, in reference to the moving
clock described in "Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies", not to a clock
in an arbitrary system.

> A contradiction would
> arise by making the clock at B the moving clock only if the clocks are
> claimed to be intially synchronized also in the K' frame -- but they
> are NOT, and this is the essential detail that you have missed.

No, it isn't a missing detail, it is an implication of Einstein's
first postulate of relativity.

Here is Einstein's description of the clocks:

"If at the points A and B of K there are stationary clocks which,
viewed in the stationary system, are synchronous; and if the clock at
A is moved with the velocity v along the line AB to B, then on its
arrival at B the two clocks no longer synchronize, but the clock moved
from A to B lags behind the other which has remained at B ..."

Let us call the moving system K', in which the moving clocks at A' and
B' are synchronized for an observer in K'. The stationary system K
also has two clocks, but these two clocks are synchronized for an
observer in K. Frames K and K' move at a constant velocity with
respect to each other.

If there is no preferred frame of reference then there is no reason
why the clocks at A' and B' cannot also be synchronized for an
observer in K', just as the clocks at A and B are for an observer in
K, due to the symmetry of the two frames and their respective clocks.

Date Subject Author
6/26/10 Koobee Wublee
6/26/10 Koobee Wublee
6/26/10 Peter Webb
6/29/10 Koobee Wublee
7/1/10 artful
7/2/10 harald
7/2/10 Androcles
7/2/10 Daryl McCullough
7/2/10 harald
7/2/10 Daryl McCullough
7/2/10 PD
7/3/10 colp
7/3/10 eric gisse
7/5/10 harald
7/5/10 Daryl McCullough
7/11/10 harald
7/11/10 Daryl McCullough
7/11/10 Daryl McCullough
7/11/10 colp
7/11/10 eric gisse
7/12/10 harald
7/12/10 Daryl McCullough
7/12/10 harald
7/12/10 Daryl McCullough
7/13/10 harald
6/29/10 colp
6/29/10 PD
7/1/10 artful
7/2/10 PD
7/3/10 colp
7/9/10 Ken Seto
7/9/10 eric gisse
7/10/10 colp
7/4/10 PD
6/29/10 colp
6/29/10 Androcles
7/3/10 PD
7/10/10 harald
7/10/10 PD
7/10/10 PD
7/3/10 Koobee Wublee
7/4/10 hanson
7/4/10 whoever
7/6/10 Koobee Wublee
7/6/10 Peter Webb
7/7/10 hanson
7/5/10 colp
7/5/10 whoever
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7/11/10 harald
7/11/10 Daryl McCullough
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7/12/10 Daryl McCullough
6/29/10 PD
7/3/10 colp
7/4/10 whoever
7/4/10 Cosmik Debris
7/4/10 Androcles
7/10/10 colp
7/11/10 Ken Seto
7/6/10 PD
6/30/10 colp
6/30/10 whoever
7/4/10 PD
7/11/10 PD
7/7/10 colp
6/30/10 PD
7/3/10 harald
7/3/10 Daryl McCullough
7/3/10 harald
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7/4/10 Ken Seto
7/4/10 harald
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7/4/10 Daryl McCullough
7/4/10 Daryl McCullough
7/4/10 Aetherist
7/4/10 Y.Porat
7/4/10 harald
7/4/10 Daryl McCullough
7/5/10 colp
7/5/10 whoever
7/5/10 colp
7/11/10 colp
7/11/10 Ken Seto
7/5/10 Koobee Wublee
7/5/10 harald
7/5/10 Daryl McCullough
7/5/10 harald
7/5/10 Daryl McCullough
7/5/10 harald
7/5/10 Daryl McCullough
7/5/10 Daryl McCullough
7/5/10 harald
7/5/10 Aetherist
7/5/10 eric gisse
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7/6/10 harald
7/6/10 harald
7/6/10 Daryl McCullough
7/6/10 Aetherist
7/6/10 Aetherist
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7/7/10 Daryl McCullough
7/7/10 Tom Roberts
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7/7/10 Daryl McCullough
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7/7/10 Daryl McCullough
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7/7/10 whoever
7/7/10 J. Clarke
7/7/10 colp
7/7/10 artful
7/7/10 J. Clarke
7/7/10 colp
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7/8/10 harald
7/7/10 PD
7/8/10 harald
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7/8/10 Edward Green
7/8/10 Daryl McCullough
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7/6/10 colp
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7/1/10 Koobee Wublee
7/1/10 whoever
7/1/10 Koobee Wublee
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7/1/10 Androcles
7/1/10 PD
6/30/10 Koobee Wublee
6/30/10 whoever
7/1/10 eric gisse
7/2/10 Koobee Wublee
7/6/10 PD
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7/1/10 Koobee Wublee
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7/1/10 Koobee Wublee
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7/1/10 Koobee Wublee
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7/2/10 Koobee Wublee
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7/2/10 Koobee Wublee
7/2/10 PD
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7/3/10 Daryl McCullough
7/1/10 artful
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7/1/10 harald
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7/1/10 artful
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7/2/10 PD
7/1/10 colp
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7/6/10 Peter Webb