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Topic: What are space and time?
Replies: 184   Last Post: Nov 19, 2012 9:14 PM

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Tim Golden http://bandtech.com

Posts: 1,490
Registered: 12/13/04
Re: What are space and time?
Posted: Jul 14, 2010 11:18 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Jul 14, 10:15 am, OwlHoot <ravensd...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 8, 3:40 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>

> > What sort of things are they if they are things?
>
> > One natural answer is that they comprise continua, three-dimensional
> > in the case of space, one-dimensional in the case of time; that is to
> > say that they consist of continuous manifolds, positions in which can
> > be occupied by substances and events respectively, and which have an
> > existence in their own right.

>
> > It is in virtue of the occupancy of such positions that events and
> > processes are to be seen as taking place after each other and
> > substances are to be seen in certain spatial relations.

>
> > Or do space and time have properties of their own independent of the
> > objects and events that they contain?

>
> > Did Einstein show, through his theory of relativity, that since space
> > and time can change in shape and duration that space and time are more
> > complex than just sustained perceptual constants?

>
> > Metaphysics - by D. W. Hamlynhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521286905/
>
> When discussing the nature of time, in particular the arrow of time,
> people often raise the "grandfather paradox", namely that if travel
> back in time were possible you could go back and kill your own
> grandfather.
>
> Well it struck me the other day (and forgive me if this is old hat to
> physicists, although I haven't seen it mentioned in the many popular
> books and blogs I read) that maybe grandfathers _are_ killed all the
> time, almost all of them. But they must be extremely small, and they
> and their grandchildren are conventionally called virtual particles.
>
> If one works on that assumption (and I fully concede it may be kooky)
> then broadly speaking studying particle physics amounts to eludating
> the conditions and symmetries under which particles don't or somehow
> can't, or are least likely to, or are slowest to, go back and murder
> their ancestors.
>
> Cheers
>
> John Ramsden


The existence we lead seems to be more stable than your construction
allows. To me this is a part of the fundamental puzzle that we should
try to address. It would be excellent if we could derive this level of
stability rather than grant it as an axiom. It is not permanent
stability, but is impressive within the window of human life. There
are less stable positions in the solar system, like in the sun, so
that thermodynamics does seem critical. We are at the triple point;
making our existence colloidal, though at a finite scale. I remember
reading about some old reference weights (in France?) losing some
weight over time. This is a fine study, and we might suppose that if
they were kept at a colder temperature they might have kept more
stably. Could they be made to gain weight? Well, I like this as an
open problem. I haven't read much about it recently.

I have some heavier posts that are not in sci.math or
sci.space.history groups of this thread you might like to read; they
are in alt.philosophy and sci.physics and sci.logic.

- Tim


Date Subject Author
7/7/10
Read What are space and time?
Immortalist
7/7/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sir Frederick
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Malrassic Park
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Michael C
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Michael C
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Mark Earnest
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Giga2
7/8/10
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Mike Helland
7/8/10
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Sam Wormley
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Mike Helland
7/8/10
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
harald
7/8/10
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bert
7/8/10
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Pat Flannery
7/8/10
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Neil Gerace
7/8/10
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John Stafford
7/8/10
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Pat Flannery
7/8/10
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John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Wordsmith
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/8/10
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GSS
7/9/10
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Dan Cass
7/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/22/10
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
zee90
7/11/10
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ZerkonXXXX
7/11/10
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Fred J. McCall
7/11/10
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Brian Q. Hutchings
7/16/10
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Paul A. Suhler
7/16/10
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John Stafford
7/16/10
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Androcles
7/11/10
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Wordsmith
7/11/10
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Wordsmith
7/11/10
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Immortalist
7/11/10
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/12/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
OwlHoot
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
8/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Darwin123
8/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
8/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Darwin123
8/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Andre Lieven
8/27/10
Read Is Minkowski's spacetime just a 3d flipbook?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/20/10
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jmfbahciv
7/20/10
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jmfbahciv
7/29/10
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Rock Brentwood
7/29/10
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jjs
7/19/10
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jmfbahciv
7/21/10
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jmfbahciv
7/21/10
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John Stafford
7/22/10
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jmfbahciv
7/21/10
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huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/22/10
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jmfbahciv
7/22/10
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bert
7/22/10
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/29/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Rock Brentwood
7/31/10
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/22/10
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huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/22/10
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jjs
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time? These are them:
Guest
7/22/10
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huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
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jjs
7/23/10
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huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/23/10
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John Stafford
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
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jmfbahciv
7/25/10
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jmfbahciv
7/25/10
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Vladimir Kirov
7/26/10
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jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space, and time for BP's cap&trade nostrum (circa
Waxman's '91 bill on acid rain)
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/26/10
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jmfbahciv
7/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/27/10
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jmfbahciv
7/25/10
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jmfbahciv
7/25/10
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jjs
7/26/10
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jmfbahciv
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
PD
7/16/10
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glird@aol.com
7/17/10
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Fred J. McCall
7/17/10
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matdumi@gmail.com
7/17/10
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huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/17/10
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huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/17/10
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/17/10
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huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/17/10
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/17/10
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huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
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huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
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mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/28/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/28/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/31/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
8/2/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
HVAC
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Immortalist
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
OwlHoot
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Bappa
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Edward Green
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Edward Green
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Edward Green
8/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Bappa
11/19/12
Read Re: What are space and time?
merryflip

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