Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math.independent

Topic: What are space and time?
Replies: 184   Last Post: Nov 19, 2012 9:14 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com

Posts: 1,490
Registered: 12/13/04
Re: What are space and time?
Posted: Jul 16, 2010 8:21 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Jul 15, 9:34 am, John Stafford <n...@droffats.ten> wrote:
> In article
> <467063a3-956d-4305-95f9-c226c1547...@t10g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
> "Tim Golden BandTech.com" <tttppp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

> > On Jul 14, 3:15 pm, John Stafford <n...@droffats.net> wrote:
> > > To begin to imagine time, it helps to consider it evidence of
> > > information in the formal sense. Information acts upon other
> > > information. Time might just be the consequence of the exchange of
> > > information that we observe as entropy.

>
> > Whether one accepts the unification of space and time then becomes an
> > issue. This is the beauty of polysign: it presents a unidirectional
> > zero dimensional algebra that has been overlooked, just beneath the
> > real number. The real number is consistent within polysign as P2, or
> > the two-signed numbers. The one-signed numbers P1 match time's seeming
> > paradox. They are near to claims of nonexistent time since they have a
> > zero dimensional geometry. But this then does allow the spacetime
> > paradign to take deeper meaning. Time is not a real number. The real
> > number is bidirectional. Time is unidirectional. [...]

>
> Indeed, polysign is beautiful and heartening, but we disagree upon the
> introduction of directionality _at this point_ of the discussion/view.
> Can we be certain that entropy is not reversible in special cases? Are
> special cases perhaps key to a breakthrough in our maths and
> understanding?
>
> I enjoy your posts. Thanks for being here.


Within polysign there is room for accumulation within any of the
domains.
I'm not a firm believer in entropy from a thermodynamic point of view
because I am not a believer in the thermodynamic interpretation as
vibrating atoms. But you use an informational paradigm. I am all for
the informational approach, but accept that the situation is
ultimately noncomputable, since the quantity of information is so
large.

For instance, if we were to measure the gravitational pull at your
position and find that it alters when I jump a foot over here then we
would be consistent with theory. I admit that this figure is a very
small dither, but informationally speaking the law of gravitation of
the earth is built as an accumulation of its parts, and this
accumulation is an act of summation within the integral. This is
likewise true of all of matter, and even going relativistic on
Newtonian gravity will not change this.

Somehow we have to admit that much of our attempts at physics require
washing out the small perturbations, and it works well. They do wash
out, but we have no hope of computing them either. Is this tied into
the informational approach? I think so, somehow, but I haven't stated
it very clearly. Still, to answer your question I suppose that
accumulation is fundamental, which is to say that superposition is
fundamental, and that its inverse is not necessary within the
fundamentals since it can be defined in terms of superposition, just
as subtraction is not a fundamental activity since we can declare it
based upon a reversal of addition:
2 + 1 = 3 . (P2)

We do see structures forming within the accumulation, so the
interpretation that all must go into a blender and come out less
structured is observably false. This may physically have something to
do with cooling, so the thermodynamics does seem to be nearby, but I
don't accept the modern form as final. We operate in a region of space
that is at a triple point, colloidally speaking. We breath gas, our
bones are solid, and our blood is liquid. There are other regions of
space where this is not possible, and we would be inanimate due to
being frozen solid, or completely gaseous to the point of the disorder
that seems so close by to your focus. When solids form there are
structured results. Sometimes pure crystals do form. Isn't the sole
instance of a diamond formation evidence enough against entropy? Or do
I have to treat this like the man jumping a foot off the ground?

- Tim


Date Subject Author
7/7/10
Read What are space and time?
Immortalist
7/7/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sir Frederick
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Malrassic Park
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Michael C
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Michael C
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Mark Earnest
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Giga2
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Mike Helland
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Mike Helland
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
harald
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
bert
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Pat Flannery
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Neil Gerace
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Pat Flannery
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Wordsmith
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
GSS
7/9/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Dan Cass
7/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
zee90
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
ZerkonXXXX
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Paul A. Suhler
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Androcles
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Wordsmith
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Wordsmith
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Immortalist
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/12/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
OwlHoot
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
8/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Darwin123
8/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
8/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Darwin123
8/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Andre Lieven
8/27/10
Read Is Minkowski's spacetime just a 3d flipbook?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/29/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Rock Brentwood
7/29/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
bert
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/29/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Rock Brentwood
7/31/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time? These are them:
Guest
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space, and time for BP's cap&trade nostrum (circa
Waxman's '91 bill on acid rain)
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/27/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
PD
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
glird@aol.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
matdumi@gmail.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/28/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/28/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/31/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
8/2/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
HVAC
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Immortalist
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
OwlHoot
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Bappa
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Edward Green
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Edward Green
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Edward Green
8/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Bappa
11/19/12
Read Re: What are space and time?
merryflip

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.