Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math

Topic: What are space and time?
Replies: 184   Last Post: Nov 19, 2012 9:14 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
jjs

Posts: 56
Registered: 8/22/08
Re: What are space and time?
Posted: Jul 22, 2010 7:55 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

In article
<4a067370-2f31-4aa8-9c73-0b41271b76e7@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
Huang <huangxienchen@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In mathematics things are proved.

Or they are not proved.

> The reason you can do this is
> because everything exists very nicely and the whole stupid thing fits
> together like Lego building blocks, and ever piece fits perfect. That
> is mathematics.


Accepted for the moment - mathematical proofs build upon each other, and
that is why proofs are so important - so that later posits do not
collapse into a pile of.. well, legos as you put it.

> Conjecture is diferent. You begin by saying not "what exists", but
> "what might exist". Conjectures are NEVER proved to be true because
> they are and must remain conjectural.


No. Some conjectures have been proven. Your logic tumbles into the
dumpster with that.

> But you CAN show that
> conjectures are consistent, and so all of these conjectures fit
> together like Lego building blocks as well. In fact, for every
> mathematical statement there is a corresponding conjectural statement
> and vice versa.


IOW, for every conjecture there is an infinite supply of poorly informed
guesswork and wholly impressionistic objection which has nothing to do
with the mathematics. I suspect you are exercising the same.

> There is no mathematical way to transform back and
> forth between the two, such operations are currently under study but
> to be sure - I do know what math is and what it is not. I also believe
> that there are tools other than math which can accomplish the same
> things that math does.


Exactly what is this 'back and forth' you write of?
[...]

> Ok - there are many ways to do this depending on how precise you want
> to make it. If you want an exact derivation you'll never get it
> because it's not calculable, would require too much computing power
> which does not exist at this time and probably never will.


You must tell us WHY this is so. A declaration is not sufficient.

> However, if we allow (for brevity) to model objects more coarsely we
> can come up with some decent models. Instead of considering every
> individual atom, just consider a planet as a whole and skip all of the
> fine structure.


So you are presuming our planet, earth, without considering what you
posited above which suggests differences among other planets. (In other
words, speculative impressionistic ideas about distant systems which
might not have the same physics humans experience. That's a
panthromorpic view.)

> A planet may then be regarded (in my model) as a gradient. The
> gradient is comprised of a potential, and to each point in space we
> assign a potential that the point exists. That gives rise to this
> gradient. Consider that the nucleus of the planet is enriched, and the
> areas in it's outer shells are rarified. A planet (or atom) is nothing
> more than an imbalance as described. [...]


I suggest that you would find some helpful views if you consider time as
information in the the classic sense, and then move on. Keywords:
holographic view of the universe, which is really an entirely
impoverished view, but the best that humankind like you can fathom.

Approximation might lead you to a failure of your philosophy that will
lead you to a deeper concept.


Date Subject Author
7/7/10
Read What are space and time?
Immortalist
7/7/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sir Frederick
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Malrassic Park
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Michael C
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Michael C
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Mark Earnest
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Giga2
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Mike Helland
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Mike Helland
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
harald
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
bert
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Pat Flannery
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Neil Gerace
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Pat Flannery
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Wordsmith
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/8/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
GSS
7/9/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Dan Cass
7/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
kado@nventure.com
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
zee90
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
ZerkonXXXX
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Paul A. Suhler
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Androcles
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Wordsmith
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Wordsmith
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Immortalist
7/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/12/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
OwlHoot
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/14/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
8/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Darwin123
8/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
8/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Darwin123
8/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Andre Lieven
8/27/10
Read Is Minkowski's spacetime just a 3d flipbook?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/29/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Rock Brentwood
7/29/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
bert
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/29/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Rock Brentwood
7/31/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time? These are them:
Guest
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
John Stafford
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space, and time for BP's cap&trade nostrum (circa
Waxman's '91 bill on acid rain)
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/27/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/25/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/26/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jmfbahciv
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
PD
7/16/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
glird@aol.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
matdumi@gmail.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/17/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jjs
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/22/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/23/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
huangxienchen@yahoo.com
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
7/24/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Brian Q. Hutchings
7/28/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/28/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/31/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Vladimir Kirov
8/2/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Fred J. McCall
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Sam Wormley
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
jonas.thornvall@hotmail.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
HVAC
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Immortalist
7/18/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
OwlHoot
7/19/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
7/20/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Bappa
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
7/21/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Eric Chomko
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Edward Green
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Edward Green
8/10/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Edward Green
8/11/10
Read Re: What are space and time?
Bappa
11/19/12
Read Re: What are space and time?
merryflip

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.