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Topic: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Replies: 49   Last Post: Jan 13, 2012 2:37 PM

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Joe Niederberger

Posts: 3,043
Registered: 10/12/08
Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Posted: Dec 16, 2011 1:40 AM
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>It's not "guilty until proved innocent" i.e. it's not >necessarily up to Penrose to "prove" humans do >non-computable things, so much as up
>to those who hold the reverse, that what humans do is >always computable.


Nonsense! It was *you* who made the affirmative proclamation that humans perform these feats and they were "easy" to find examples thereof, now when I call you on it you slide into this position.

>Qualified people" means nothing here really.

Since I'm arguing with one who easily confuses solving chess problems with "non-computable" feats of derring-do, I'll have to concede that point.

But I'll reiterate that granting "there are things that humans do that are a mystery and a wonder" does not lead to therefore "they are in principle non-algorithmic".
That's right - if you are claiming the latter, you have to do more than talk a lot about the former.

>I'm not willing to concede that those without evidence >(Penrose has plenty -- lots that humans do, computers >cannot and have not

Penrose does not have "plenty". He made a curious argument based on a very specific (mistaken) way of viewing Godel Incompleteness Theorem(s). Here's a flat out rebuttable that for me says it best:
http://www.mth.kcl.ac.uk/~llandau/Homepage/Math/penrose.html

I'd say the situation regarding these claimed powers to transcend Turing computability in human symbolic reasoning is much more akin to claims of flying saucers and ESP - show 'em if you got 'em. Factor me some really big numbers in an instant.

Joe N


Date Subject Author
12/11/11
Read Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/12/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/12/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/12/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/13/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/13/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/13/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/13/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/13/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/13/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/13/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/13/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/13/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/15/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/16/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/16/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/16/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/16/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/17/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/17/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/17/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/18/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Wayne Bishop
12/18/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/18/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/23/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/23/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Wayne Bishop
12/24/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Louis Talman
12/23/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/23/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/23/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Wayne Bishop
12/24/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/24/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Wayne Bishop
12/24/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/24/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner
12/24/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
12/24/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Wayne Bishop
12/24/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/25/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
12/25/11
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Dan Christensen
1/13/12
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
Joe Niederberger
1/13/12
Read Re: Brainstorming about STEM (was About Functions)
kirby urner

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