Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-learn

Topic: [math-learn] Re: FCI and CCI in China #2
Replies: 50   Last Post: Jan 27, 2012 8:17 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
John Clement

Posts: 852
Registered: 12/6/04
RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Posted: Jan 25, 2012 11:34 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply
att1.html (14.1 K)

My observation is not just about some students who have taken calculus, but
all students who have taken calculus and then ended up in my class. Indeed
some of them had more than just one year of calculus, yet they couldn't
write a simple algebraic expression. I do not have any way of knowing if
they took AP and got a 5, but surely anyone who had more than a year of
college calculus should be able to get a 5 on the AP.

In particular given the picture of a wave, the wavelength, the amplitude,
and the period it was like pulling teeth to get them to write down the
equation that described the picture. So there is obviously something wrong
with the traditional way calculus is taught. They could say it is a sine
wave, but then they were stumped as to how to incorporate the other data.

John M. Clement
Houston, TX

>
> I don't think anything I have said is counter to those
> observations. I never said that all students of traditional
> classes are successful. My statement is that almost all
> students scoring a 5 (which is like 65%-70%) on an AP
> calculus exam are successful. The reason so many students
> succeed in traditional classes (or any classes for that
> matter) yet are not actually successful, is grade inflation.
> It is just not in our nature to fail a student that has
> worked hard all year. It's easy if they don't show up or goof
> off the whole year, but we can't do it if they tried all
> year. I doubt even I could do it. That is why it is so
> important to me to see comparisons of high performance on
> comprehensive exams.
>
> Bob Hansen
>
> On Jan 25, 2012, at 9:00 AM, John Clement wrote:
>

> > I find this to be a bit funny, because I have seen so many
> students who have
> > gone through a first year traditional calculus course and
> can't use it.
> > They can't write a simple integral nor a simple algebraic
> equation. My son
> > got good grades in calculus, but still didn't seem to
> understand it. As a
> > result he couldn't apply it. He could do the mechanics, but
> not much else.
> > What is even worse I have seen students who passed
> calculus, but still
> > didn't exhibit the ability to do proportional reasoning.
> And the type of
> > courses they passed were all traditional using traditional texts.
> >
> > They simply did not understand the concepts behind

> Calculus. They could
> > sometimes recognize the name of a math principle, but
> recognizing that they
> > needed to use it did not seem to happen.
> >
> > John M. Clement
> > Houston, TX
> >

> > > And my point is simply that since it isn't a comprehensive
> > > assessment of Calculus then it cannot be used to compare the
> > > effectiveness of IE to non IE classes. The only way to make a
> > > useful comparison between IE and non IE is to use a
> > > comprehensive exam. There is a lot more to owning calculus
> > > (or physics) than owning an inventory of basic principles. My
> > > impression of IE is that it works better in first year
> > > terminal classes than traditional methods that are geared
> > > toward full ownership. In other words, if someone is trying
> > > to be a nurse but has to take calculus (because the college
> > > says so) as their last ever math class, then IE might be a
> > > useful alternative to a real calculus class that is geared
> > > towards students that actually need and use calculus.
> > >

> >
> >

>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>




Date Subject Author
1/22/12
Read [math-learn] Re: FCI and CCI in China #2
Richard Hake
1/22/12
Read Re: [math-learn] Re: FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/22/12
Read Re: [math-learn] Re: FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/22/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/22/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/23/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/22/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/23/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/23/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/23/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/23/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/23/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/23/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/23/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/24/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/24/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/24/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/24/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/24/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
timotha@comcast.net
1/24/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/25/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
timotha@comcast.net
1/25/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/25/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/25/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/25/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/25/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/25/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/25/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/25/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/26/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Ed Wall
1/26/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Ed Wall
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI --where from here?
Jerry Epstein
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI --where from here?
Ed Wall
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI --where from here?
Jerry Epstein
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI --where from here?
Robert Hansen
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
timotha@comcast.net
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Ed Wall
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/27/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Ed Wall
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Ed Wall
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/27/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/27/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Robert Hansen
1/27/12
Read RE: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
John Clement
1/25/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein
1/25/12
Read Re: [math-learn] FCI and CCI in China #2
Jerry Epstein

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.