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Topic: Finland
Replies: 52   Last Post: Feb 20, 2012 3:22 PM

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Stephanie Epifanio

Posts: 2
Registered: 2/17/12
Re: Finland
Posted: Feb 16, 2012 10:14 PM
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I am the parent of a gifted child, and you are right--the schools were not able
(or willing) to accommodate her needs. I could tell you stories about her
education all day, but I will stay with the math theme here. My daughter chose
to be homeschooled, which allowed her to move through curriculum at her pace,
rather than following any preset expectations. When she was nine, she was ready
for algebra. She completed Saxon Algebra I at home, and we began looking around
for the next step. (At that time, I was not equipped to teach Algebra II.
Believe me, I remedied that problem as quickly as I could.) We were fortunate
that Florida Virtual School accepted her into Algebra II with no questions about
her age. The following school year, she "considered" going to the local school.
Their plan for her math was for us to come down to the school--eight miles each
way--and drive her over to the high school for math. The high school was on
block scheduling at that time, and had a student population of over 3,000. In
other words, most of her school day would have been taken up by getting to the
math class and sitting through it (an hour and forty-five minute class). Of
course, this required a few hours a day on our part as well. Did we force the
school to do something? No...we turned to the local college. Instead of
attending sixth grade in the fall, she took college algebra. The college
students (and the professors) were all very friendly and accepting of her
attendance. She had excellent grades, and decided to stick with dual enrollment
for her other classes the next semester. She graduated with an associate's
degree at the age of fourteen (with a 4.00), and went off to a four year school.
The public schools had nothing to do with her education. This teenager is
well-adjusted and respected at her current institution; I attribute this in part
to allowing her to follow her strengths at her own speed.

Stephanie



________________________________
From: Haim <hpipik@netzero.com>
To: math-teach@mathforum.org
Sent: Thu, February 16, 2012 6:55:08 PM
Subject: Re: Finland

Paul A. Tanner, III Posted: Feb 16, 2012 9:37 AM

> The above is false for a very simple reason:

What are we talking about? Are we talking about the world as it is or about
the world as you wish it were? I suppose the latter, in which case I will make
a couple of brief points then I will step aside and let you carry on with
whoever cares to explore your fantasies.

First, you have just made an existence argument. For what? If I am the
parent of a TAG child, exactly what can I force to the schools to do for me?
Looking around, we find,

- ------------------------
http://gcq.sagepub.com/content/48/4/309.abstract
To fill a gap in the literature, this article provides a comprehensive, concise,
and current overview of the case law?specifically, published hearing/review
officer and court decisions?concerning gifted education for K-12 students. This
case law represents two distinct groups: ?gifted alone,? designating students
whose legal status is based solely on their gifted status, and ?gifted plus,?
designating students who not only are gifted, but also have special legal status
typically in terms of disability (i.e., ?twice exceptional?) or race. The
outcomes of the case law in both categories have generally favored the defendant
school districts. The absence in many states of strong and specific legislation
or regulations for gifted-alone students and the lack of judicial sensitivity to
the complexity of the gifted-plus category likely contribute to the overall
district-friendly trend of the case law to date.

- ------------------------------

and the interesting recent case of Levi Clancy, who lost his court action,

http://www.sierrasun.com/article/20100527/NEWS/100529918
The Education code allows school boards to "elect" to provide gifted and
talented pupil programs but they are not mandated by California law.

- ------------------------------

Feel free to look up other such cases in other states. There ain't many.

Also, there is a history to the Clancey case. Before they tried to force the
State of CA to pay for the minor's college education, they sued under the Civil
Rights laws,
http://www.wnd.com/2004/02/23213/

They lost that one, too.

So, here is a homework assignment. Why do you suppose there is a "gap in the
literature"? Why do you think there are few TAG-related court cases?

But, let's get down to brass tack. You write,

>In other words, there are claiming that gifted kids are
>just as special as any other kid deemed worthy of
>special consideration in special education


From which we learn that you are not the only one building castles in the sky.
Let me show you why, by quoting from NY State special education law,

- ------------------
http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$EDN4401$$@TXEDN04401+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=EXPLORER+&TOKEN=04001433+&TARGET=VIEW

"Special education" means specially designed instruction which includes
special services or programs as delineated in subdivision two of this section,
and transportation, provided at no cost to the parents to meet the unique needs
of a child with a disability. A "child with a handicapping condition" means a
child with a disability.
- -------------------

In other words, I am truly touched that you think TAG kids are special, too, but
"special education" is defined in law, so you can take a hike.

There is plenty more where that came from, all amounting to the same thing: TAG
kids are SOL.*

You can browse NY State law here,
http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/MENUGETF.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS+&TARGET=VIEW

The general categories are listed alphabetically, so you have only to look up
"Education law", which starts here,
http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=@LLEDN+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=EXPLORER+&TOKEN=27381683+&TARGET=VIEW


Articles 89 and 90 are what immediately concern us. In fact, comparing Article
89 (Children With Handicapping Conditions) to Article 90 (Gifted Education) I
think will be a highly illuminating exercise.

I will bet dollars to donuts that the laws in your state, whoever you are and
whatever your state, are virtually indistinguishable from NY State law, in this
matter. We have already seen just such is the case in California.

Haim
Shovel ready? What shovel ready?
- --------------------
* With apologies to the moderator, readers who are not familiar with this
acronym may want to look it up in the "Urban Dictionary",
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=S.O.L.


Date Subject Author
2/12/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/13/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/13/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/13/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/13/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/13/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/14/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/16/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Richard Strausz
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Richard Strausz
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Richard Strausz
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/15/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/16/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/16/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/16/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/17/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/17/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/17/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/16/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/16/12
Read Re: Finland
Stephanie Epifanio
2/17/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/17/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/17/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/17/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/17/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Haim
2/18/12
Read TAG Education
Robert Hansen
2/18/12
Read Re: Finland
Robert Hansen
2/19/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III
2/19/12
Read Re: Finland
Wayne Bishop
2/20/12
Read Re: Finland
Paul A. Tanner III

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