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Topic: Warning to visitors to sci.math
Replies: 266   Last Post: Mar 19, 2012 9:13 AM

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Rotwang

Posts: 1,685
From: Swansea
Registered: 7/26/06
Re: Warning to visitors to sci.math
Posted: Mar 16, 2012 1:15 AM
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On 16/03/2012 04:24, Rotwang wrote:
> [...]
>
> Is it just that the word "set" invokes the image of a
> container, and you don't accept the idea of something containing an
> infinite number of things? If so then just call them something other
> than sets, and use a word other than "in" for the elementhood relation.
> In practice, nothing that mathematicians use sets for actually depend on
> thinking of sets as "containing" things.


Perhaps I should illustrate this with an example. Let's suppose that
instead of talking about sets, mathematicians spoke of "flags". Instead
of saying that a number n is in a set x, they would say that a number n
possessed a flag x. All of the axioms of set theory could then be
translated into statements about flags; the pairing axiom (which says
that for all sets x and y there is a set z whose elements are x and y,
and nothing else) would become the statement that, for all flags f and
g, there exists a flag h such that f possesses h, g possesses h, and no
other flags possess h. The axiom of infinity would become the statement
that there is a flag f which is possessed by 0, and which is possessed
by n + 1 whenever it is possessed by n.

The completeness axiom of the real numbers would then have to be changed
to refer to flags instead of sets: instead of saying that every
non-empty set of real numbers bounded above has a least upper bound, it
would say that for every flag f such that at least one real number
possesses f, and such that there is a real number M which is greater
than every real number that possesses f, there exists a least real
number greater than or equal to every real number that possesses f. The
proof I gave would go through in much the same way, except it wouldn't
refer to sets containing infinitely many numbers; instead it would refer
to flags that are possessed by infinitely many real numbers. But
mathematically it would be the exact same proof, just using different
(and more cumbersome) words to mean the same thing.

Would you have any objection to the idea of a flag being possessed by
infinitely many numbers?


Date Subject Author
3/7/12
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DavidW
3/7/12
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adamk
3/8/12
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Brian Chandler
3/8/12
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Richard Tobin
3/8/12
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3/8/12
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amzoti
3/9/12
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micky
3/8/12
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Frederick Williams
3/8/12
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DavidW
3/8/12
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DavidW
3/8/12
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DavidW
3/8/12
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J. Antonio Perez M.
3/8/12
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DavidW
3/8/12
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J. Antonio Perez M.
3/9/12
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DavidW
3/9/12
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Brian Chandler
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DavidW
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DavidW
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DavidW
3/9/12
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Frederick Williams
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DavidW
3/9/12
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Frederick Williams
3/9/12
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DavidW
3/9/12
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3/10/12
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3/12/12
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3/13/12
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3/14/12
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Horand.Gassmann@googlemail.com
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3/16/12
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3/10/12
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