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Re: Clear Creek TX sch. board resolution vs. high-stakes testing
Posted:
Mar 16, 2012 9:24 PM
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In 2011 the passing rate nationwide for AB Calculus was 56.2%.
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/AP-Student-Score-Distributions.pdf
In Florida, from 1997 to 2011 the state passing rate went from 56.5% to 48.7%
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/ap/archived/1997
http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/exgrd_sum/2011.html
In 2011 in Florida for all AP tests (I cant split out individual subjects by school)...
http://www.fldoe.org/evaluation/act-sat-ap.asp
743 high schools reported.
240 (32%) reported no exams taken.
93 (13%) took exams but less than 15 students passed and do not report results involving less than 15.
410 (55%) reported results.
Of those 410 schools reporting results.
92 (22%) had passing rates less than 25%
287 (70%) had passing rates less than 50%
354 (86%) had passing rates less than 60%.
56 (14%) had passing rates greater than 60%.
And about those 93 (13%) schools that took the exam but didn't have at least 15 students passing. Some of those schools had only 1 student taking an AP exam. But some had many students taking AP exams. For example, the largest one had 473 students taking AP exams and still didn't have enough passing students to report. The next had 289, then 282, 274, 229, and so on. 28 of those 93 schools had 30 or more students taking AP exams and didn't have enough passing students to meet the 15 student threshold. If I had included those schools I think it would push the % of schools with less than 25% passing from 22% to over 25%.
Remember, "passing" for AB Calculus is scoring 37% or better on the exam.
Even if we use your standard Paul, AP is broken.
You can see why I am not that thrilled about expanding the AP program (as it is).
Haim said it awhile ago. Start giving students the grade they earned. If you did that then I don't even think you need AP programs or gifted programs. The students will decide what they feel is right.
Bob Hansen
On Mar 16, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Paul Tanner wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Robert Hansen <bob@rsccore.com> wrote:
>> Voluntary is good, elective might be a better word. I don't think the AP
>> program is that anymore. Not in many schools. But let's not quibble. The AP
>> program is broken in many schools. When the entire class fails the exam I
>> say it is broken.
>
> At such schools it is.
>
> It is not broken nationwide - that's just one isolated class here or
> there. Nationwide 60% or so pass the test with a 3, 4, or 5. And this
> is a year long cumulative test.
>
>> If that is because it is too voluntary or because someone
>> is goading the kids into the program
>
> think parents
>
>> doesn't matter. There needs to be a bar
>> and I posted before that a 70% passing rate (of a class or school) is
>> probably a good lower limit.
>
> I'd say around 60% or so. It fits nicely that there are 5 scoring levels.
>
> Below 50% definitely too many are in the program.
>
>> When it falls below that then you are not
>> providing proper guidance to your students and start seriously diminishing
>> the worth of the experience for all of the students.
>
> But they should be told that the real test of whether they learned
> calculus as well as they should is in the scores they get at AP.
>
> But still, when that study I cited shows that even those in that study
> who failed with a 1 or 2 scored on average still higher on the
> international math test TIMSS Advanced than the average score of even
> the highest scoring countries in the entire world who took the test in
> both 1995 and 2008, then that says something - a lot of something.
> Which is that even those who fail the AP calculus test might still be
> learning well a lot of advanced math whether or not it be calculus
> along the way. It just depends on who failed and how badly they failed
> their AP calculus test.
>
>>
>> I also think it is difficult to track in elementary school.
>
> I was talking of beginning of middle school.
>
>> It isn't block
>> scheduled.
>
> It was when I went to elementary school.
>
>> I would try to get what you suggest to work properly in middle
>> and high school first and then look at what can be done in elementary
>> school.
>>
>> Bob Hansen
>>
>> On Mar 14, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Paul Tanner wrote:
>>
>> Please reread what I actually wrote. I said "voluntary" - just as the
>> AP program now is voluntary - and I said it would set up a logistics
>> to make much more routine the very thing you want, which is more of
>> the more gifted kids being accelerated through the material.
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