Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Topic: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Replies: 50   Last Post: May 11, 2012 7:54 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Paul A. Tanner III

Posts: 5,920
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Posted: Mar 23, 2012 5:55 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 10:10 PM, Haim <hpipik@netzero.com> wrote:
> Since the list moderator seems content to allow, even to promote, the topics near to Paul's heart...

My addressing Haim's racist affirmations was the subject of the post
of mine that he had a problem with - he actually linked to this post
of mine in his original post of this thread. So he should not blame
the moderator for allowing me to address those racist affirmations in
posts like

http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7750633&tstart=0

in this thread - he opened the door to it.

Conservatism has a long tradition of racism, even white supremacy.
Even the biggest names in conservative commentary over the years, like
James Kilpatrick and even the early William F. Buckley, Jr., affirmed
that blacks are inherently inferior to whites. Conservatives who hold
to this racist notion just love to cite any published literature they
can find that they think backs up their racist ideas about blacks.
Like studies showing less "involvement" by black parents in their
kids' educations than white parents.

But this literature that "shows" less "involvement" by black parents
may itself suffer from cultural bias and therefore "shows" less -
perhaps very much less - involvement by black parents than there
actually is, according to many other published studies such as the
following:

"Rethinking Parent Involvement: African American Mothers Construct
their Roles in the Mathematics Education of their Children"
http://www.adi.org/journal/ss05/Jackson%20&%20Remillard.pdf

Quote: "Our findings offer evidence that traditional understandings of
parent involvement may overlook ways that low-income parents
deliberately involve themselves in their children's education."

"Are Household Income, Gender, and Race Important in Shaping Parental
Involvement in Children's Education?"
http://digitalcommons.uconn.edu/nera_2010/26/

Quote: "The authors used data from the National Household Education
Surveys (NHES) Program 2007 Parent and Family Involvement in Education
Survey (National Center for Education Statistics, 2007) (N=10,681) to
examine household income, gender, and race of parents, and their
importance in shaping parental involvement in children's education.
The study finds that when accounting for tutoring that: (1) Pacific
Islander mothers have the highest odds of being involved in their
child's homework; (2) Black fathers have the highest odds of being
involved in their child's homework; and (3) Low household incomes
(compared to high household incomes) have the highest odds of being
involved in their child's homework. This study supports previous
research on "nontraditional parental involvement," as well as previous
research regarding high African American parental involvement."

What started all this was my point that the main reason for grade
inflation in k12 was parental pressure having its effect gradually
over the years. Haim implied with his reply that this parental
pressure over time can't explain grade inflation with respect to black
students because, by these studies on parental "involvement", the
total parental involvement from black parents over all this time must
be too incredibly low to result in the kind of pressure that over time
results in grade inflation like it does for white students via
pressure from their parents. See my reply to his claim:

http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7748773&tstart=0

Again: The racist idea that Haim is trying to promote is in the form
of a certain implication he is trying to make from this published and
now shown to be probably biased set of studies wrongly showing less
"involvement" by black parents. That is, this racist implication is
that the total amount of black parental involvement over the years
must be so fantastically low that it cannot possibly result in any
pressure that could ever result in grade inflation over the years for
black kids in the same way that this type of parental pressure over
the years from white parents results in grade inflation over the years
for white kids. I'm sorry, but the leap from studies that probably
suffer from cultural bias and so perhaps even severely underestimate
black involvement in their kids' educations to the idea that black
involvement must be so fantastically low as just described is a racist
leap.

Side note: Here is a study that will raise some eyebrows, relevant to
this thread since it's about integrity:

"Adolescent Integrity: Race and Ethnic Differences"
http://crs.sagepub.com/content/28/1-2/145.abstract

Quote: "This study finds significant differences between white and
nonwhite teens in the extent to which they value integrity. The
Integrity Scale (IS) is based on items from the High School
Effectiveness Study, the metropolitan supplement to the National
Education Longitudinal Study, and includes questions about cheating on
tests, disobeying school rules, copying other students' homework,
cutting classes, and being late for school. With various statistical
controls, white students score lowest and black students highest, with
Hispanics and Asians scoring about average. The interpretation for
whites' low scores is that they desire to maintain their traditional
privileges in increasing pluralistic high schools, and this is
consistent with, for example, cheating on tests. The interpretation
for blacks' high scores is that they routinely experience the racism
of excessive scrutiny, and, therefore, adopt the most transparent
behaviors, which is consistent with their placing a high value on
integrity and honesty."

Finally, this recent episode in Florida where a non-black man ran down
and shot to death an unarmed black teenager who committed no crime,
yet was not arrested for this, is just further proof of the
psychological oppression that blacks live under every day of their
lives from those who have racist attitudes in the US. Blacks have to
live by a different set of rules in the US. Store detectives follow
them around in stores simply because they are black; police treat them
differently than whites, and on and on, including neighborhood watch
people running them down merely because they are black and so
"shouldn't be there". Yes, racists deny all this, but that's just par
for the course for them.

In light of all this: The last thing math-teach needs is people trying
to get away with the promoting of racist ideas, piling even more
racist BS onto the pile of racist BS that blacks in America have to
endure. That's why I choose to not look the other way any more when I
see racist ideas even subtly put forth here at math-teach. I will
address it and call it for what it is and insist on an apology from
those who promote it. And so I say to Haim:

You can try to invent BS out of thin air to try to justify or deflect
attention from the racist ideas you put forth and stand by, but I
again will reply by sticking to the point and insisting that you do
the right thing that conscience demands especially in the wake of the
killing in Florida and apologize for contributing to the increasing
racist climate in the US by apologizing for each of the racist ideas
you have put forth here at math-teach (that I catalog in my posts
including the above, the most recent of these racist ideas I clarify
above).


Date Subject Author
3/20/12
Read Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/20/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Robert Hansen
3/21/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
kirby urner
3/21/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/21/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/21/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/22/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
GS Chandy
3/22/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
GS Chandy
3/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
3/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Robert Hansen
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
3/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
GS Chandy
3/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
GS Chandy
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Robert Hansen
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/24/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/25/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
GS Chandy
3/25/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Robert Hansen
3/25/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
GS Chandy
3/25/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
GS Chandy
3/25/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
3/25/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
3/26/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/26/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/26/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/27/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
3/27/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Haim
3/27/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
3/28/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
4/1/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
4/1/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
4/1/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
4/16/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
4/16/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Paul A. Tanner III
4/17/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
Gary Tupper
4/19/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight
4/23/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
GS Chandy
5/11/12
Read Re: Appeal For Intellectual Integrity
israeliteknight

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.