Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Topic: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Replies: 31   Last Post: Mar 28, 2012 4:52 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Robert Hansen

Posts: 8,213
From: Florida
Registered: 6/22/09
Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Posted: Mar 27, 2012 10:41 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

> Imagine what the spread would be if you forced a lot of other people to compete, people with no skill and no desire for the contest.

I don't think we have to imagine.

> I think it would take strength of character, rarely found in adults, for a young child in such a situation to realize that despite conditions it is in his long-run interest to obey the rules and do the work. Given the massive evidence before his eyes that playing by the rules and doing the work is a sucker's game, most young kids are going respond exactly to the incentives given them by the schools. They will do nothing. Isn't this just what we (Paul not included) see in the schools, today?

Yes. This is human nature. This is why I spend the time I do teaching my son. I am in a race against time. The gap begins to form quickly and this fraud, jiggering with the rules as you call it, a relatively recent and nasty turn of events in educational integrity, grows quickly in response. By middle school he must be "in" these subjects, which offers some immunity to what you describe, or he will be a victim of the lies.

Bob Hansen

On Mar 27, 2012, at 6:46 AM, Haim wrote:

> Haim Posted: Mar 26, 2012 6:43 PM
>

>> Robert Hansen Posted: Mar 26, 2012 5:40 PM
>>> The system as it is has degenerated to match non
>>> studious students which makes it less useful to the
>>> studious ones as well.

>>
>> No! The students are doing exactly what is required of
>> them. Bob, you too easily forget The Prime Directive,
>> or you do not take it seriously. Either way, you are
>> making a mistake.

>
> Bob,
>
> You must have seen, IRL or on TV, a track-and-field type race. The field of runners almost always gets spread out, with a considerable gap between the winner and some of the top runners on the one hand and the losers and stragglers on the other. This gap gets especially wide in the longer events, where there is more time for the field to spread out and where some runners even get lapped.
>
> People run in such events voluntarily. They are motivated to prepare and to try hard to win and they generally have some talent for the contest. Imagine what the spread would be if you forced a lot of other people to compete, people with no skill and no desire for the contest. The gap would instantly become ridiculous.
>
> Imagine now what would happen if you somehow jiggered with the rules of the game in an ill-conceived attempt to reduce the gap. People with no skill or desire for the contest would try even less hard, if that were possible. People who previously might have competed seriously would start to put less effort into it as that saw that the game was rigged against them or altogether pointless.
>
> Now consider some bright young kid in elementary school. He obeyed the rules, diligently did his school work, learned the material, and got promoted to the next grade. He also sees that some of his classmates broke the rules, did none of their school work, learned nothing, and also got promoted to the next grade. What is such a kid to think?
>
> I think it would take strength of character, rarely found in adults, for a young child in such a situation to realize that despite conditions it is in his long-run interest to obey the rules and do the work. Given the massive evidence before his eyes that playing by the rules and doing the work is a sucker's game, most young kids are going respond exactly to the incentives given them by the schools. They will do nothing. Isn't this just what we (Paul not included) see in the schools, today?
>
> Haim
> Shovel ready? What shovel ready?



Date Subject Author
3/23/12
Read Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Ken Abbott
3/23/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Paul A. Tanner III
3/24/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Clyde Greeno @ MALEI
3/26/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
kirby urner
3/26/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
kirby urner
3/26/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/26/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Haim
3/26/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Louis Talman
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Louis Talman
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/28/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Louis Talman
3/28/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/28/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Louis Talman
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Clyde Greeno @ MALEI
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/28/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Louis Talman
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/28/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Louis Talman
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Haim
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
kirby urner
3/28/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
kirby urner
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Domenico Rosa
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Dave L. Renfro
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Domenico Rosa
3/27/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Haim
3/28/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Haim
3/28/12
Read Re: Discussion: Do US Math Teachers Suck?
Robert Hansen

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.