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Re: A Solution for a Bygone Era
Posted:
Jun 8, 2012 6:50 PM
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On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Robert Hansen <bob@rsccore.com> wrote:
>
> On Jun 8, 2012, at 2:29 PM, Paul Tanner wrote:
>
> This Jay Schalin is not saying what Robert and you are trying to get
> away with implying, which is the bald falsity that the average recent
> high school graduate with no college degree is no worse off than the
> average recent college graduate.
>
>
>
> Geez Paul, there you go off and say something completely different.
>
> Reread the sentence I quoted again...
>
> "It is likely that they would be employed at an equal or higher rate than
> most college graduates even if they had not attended college at all."
>
> The "they" in that sentence refers to the talented students that typically
> succeed in STEM fields.
But so what. The fair comparison is to compare these talented people
who have no college degree not to merely "most college graduates" but
to other talented people who are at least as talented but who, by
getting a college degree, actually proved to prospective employers
that they have actually do have these qualities of "intelligence,
perseverance, diligence, and a sense of responsibility" that Schalin
says employers want.
It is bad advice to tell one of these talented young people right out
of high school the falsity that the average employer will blindly
believe their claims that they have just as much "intelligence,
perseverance, diligence, and a sense of responsibility" as those of
equal talent but who actually proved that they have such by actually
doing the work to get a college degree, especially a graduate college
degree, that having no degree will have no effect at all especially in
the long term.
That is, yes, tech companies including large ones hire people with no
degree. But so what. Companies in every field do that. There is a lot
of lower level "grunt" work to do in every industry, including tech.
So this fact proves nothing as to what is really important, which is
the long-term future or long-term possibilities for advancement in the
field into higher and higher levels of responsibility and pay, where
we look at that for the average talented person who has no college
degree at all in comparison to the average person who has at least as
much talent but who also proved the qualities of "intelligence,
perseverance, diligence, and a sense of responsibility" by actually
having done the work to get a 4 year degree and especially a graduate
degree.
If you still want to push your "no degree is on average just a good as
a degree even if that degree is advanced and even for the long-term"
nonsense, they you need to prove this via the actual facts as to what
the statistics actually are. But good luck; you'll need it because the
actual statistical facts say other than what you say.
For instance, consider this from not too long ago - which is still
true and will remain true especially as the economy eventually gets
back to normal:
"Advanced degrees often needed for high-tech jobs in state"
http://msbusiness.com/2004/05/advanced-degrees-often-needed-for-hightech-jobs-in-state/
You think that those with no college degree would be considered for
the best jobs with the best long term possibilities for increasing
responsibility and pay when those at least as talented and who have
only 4 year degrees are not being considered for these jobs?
Again: You need to back up your claims with actual data that shows
what you claim: That statistically speaking, the average talented
person with no degree has just as much opportunity for even the best
jobs even in terms of long term prospects for advancement in
responsibility and pay as those who have 4 year degrees and even
advanced degrees at the master's and PhD levels.
One needs to consider that the present relatively poor state of the
economy will not last forever. And when things start to pick up again,
it will be more and more clear statistically speaking how bad the long
term prospects for advancement in responsibility and pay are for the
average person who has no degree in comparison to the average person
who is at least as talented but has that 4 year and especially that
graduate degree.
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