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Topic: Matheology § 038
Replies: 94   Last Post: Jun 19, 2012 12:56 PM

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 Virgil Posts: 4,482 Registered: 1/6/11
Re: Matheology � 038
Posted: Jun 17, 2012 1:24 PM

In article
WM <mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:

> On 16 Jun., 20:28, PotatoSauce <kiwisqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 16, 2012 12:32:18 PM UTC-4, WM wrote:
> >

> > > Take the set of natural numbers as an example. There exists x concerns
> > > always a finite initial segment.

> >
> > Yet, another meaningless statement.
> >
> > If you mean that x is always a finite number, and that number belongs to a
> > finite initial segment, then you are not saying anything interesting.

To say that each natural is from a finite initial of naturals
immediately suggests the existence of a non-finite initial segment.
>
> It is basic to all mathematics. It is of utmost interest. You only
> have not yet perceived how important it is.

Since there are bits of mathematics not requiring any natural numbers
nothing of the naturals is basic to all mathematics.
> >
> > > There exists no x concerns the
> > > *finite* definition of the set.

> >
> > Here you are mixing up "finite initial segment" of natural numbers with
> > "finite definition."

>
> No.

Yes!

> Think deeper. It is not possible to look at infinitely many
> elements of a set. You can only look at the finite definition of the
> set.

WM can only say what HE cannot see, at least until he can tell us how to
look out through other peoples' eyes.

WM's admitted limitations only limit himself.

> Example:
> From "set of even numbers" you can obtain that 3 is not a member.
> From "2, 4, 6, 8, 10, try to imagine this sequence continued in
> infinity" you cannot conclude on the absence of 3, because you never
> know whether 3 will be the next element, unless you have seen all
> elements. But you never have seen all elements of an infinite set

Thus, according to WM, no finite set of even numbers will allow us to
conclude that 3 is not among a larger set of them, and one must allow
the infinite set of them to draw that trivial conclusion.

AS to often occurs, WM's argument proves his claim to be fasle
>
> From "2, 4, 6, ..." you can conclude that 3 does not belong to the
> set. But "2, 4, 6, ..." is a finite definition.

Of an infinite sequence.
> >
> > Unless you can give me an example of an even number which does not come
> > from a natural number through the map
> >
> > f(n) = 2n,
> >
> > I'm going to continue to say that you are just talking nonsense.

>
> Above you gave a finite definition.

Of an infinite set!
--

Date Subject Author
6/14/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12 Uergil
6/14/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12 Uergil
6/14/12 Jürgen R.
6/14/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12 Jürgen R.
6/14/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12 Uergil
6/14/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/14/12 Ki Song
6/14/12 Virgil
6/15/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12 Virgil
6/15/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12 Virgil
6/16/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12 Virgil
6/15/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12 Virgil
6/15/12 Ki Song
6/15/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12 Ki Song
6/15/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12 Ki Song
6/16/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12 Ki Song
6/16/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12 Ki Song
6/17/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12 Ki Song
6/17/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12 Ki Song
6/18/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12 Jürgen R.
6/18/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12 Jürgen R.
6/18/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12 Jürgen R.
6/18/12 Virgil
6/18/12 Virgil
6/17/12 Virgil
6/17/12 YBM
6/17/12 Virgil
6/16/12 Virgil
6/16/12 Virgil
6/16/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12 Virgil
6/17/12 Ki Song
6/17/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12 Ki Song
6/18/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12 Virgil
6/18/12 Virgil
6/18/12 LudovicoVan
6/17/12 Virgil
6/15/12 Ki Song
6/16/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12 Ki Song
6/16/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/16/12 Ki Song
6/17/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12 Ki Song
6/17/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12 Ki Song
6/18/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12 Virgil
6/18/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
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6/18/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/18/12 Virgil
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6/14/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
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6/14/12 Uergil
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6/14/12 Uergil
6/15/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/15/12 Uergil
6/17/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/17/12 Uergil
6/18/12 LudovicoVan
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6/19/12 mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
6/19/12 Uergil
6/15/12 Math