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Topic: Matheology § 062
Replies: 181   Last Post: Jul 14, 2012 1:48 PM

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LudovicoVan

Posts: 4,162
From: London
Registered: 2/8/08
Re: Matheology § 062
Posted: Jul 9, 2012 9:08 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

"LudovicoVan" <julio@diegidio.name> wrote in message
news:jtd4b2$p8b$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> "LudovicoVan" <julio@diegidio.name> wrote in message
> news:jtd2u7$m86$1@speranza.aioe.org...

>> "William Hughes" <wpihughes@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:20bf120f-1a48-4b3e-b4bd-a44e99e3dc5f@e7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

>>> On Jul 8, 7:06 pm, "LudovicoVan" <ju...@diegidio.name> wrote:
>>>> "William Hughes" <wpihug...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:e1d0dff0-3ac5-4645-9b46-e7e5fb4029c5@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

>>>> > On Jul 8, 6:44 pm, "LudovicoVan" <ju...@diegidio.name> wrote:
>>>> >> "William Hughes" <wpihug...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> >>news:e1517d28-714a-492d-b62f-a96df7aa3837@e7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>> >> <snip>

>>>>
>>>> >> > There is no step w (nothing happens at time 0).
>>>>
>>>> >> Not even that the vase is empty? Good grief.
>>>>
>>>> > Certainly the vase is empty at time 0 and this is the first time
>>>> > at which it it empty, however, no balls enter or leave the vase
>>>> > at time 0 (it is a consequence of the existence of an ordered
>>>> > entity without largest element that you can have a process which
>>>> > is completed *by* a certain time, but for which there is no
>>>> > time at which a step that completes the process happens).

>>>>
>>>> It is rather a consequence of your ambiguous language that you are not
>>>> even
>>>> wrong. Have you got any math to show?

>>>
>>> Try responding first to
>>>

>>>> And, incidentally, wouldn't you agree that
>>>> |limX|=/=lim|X| is just a wrong conclusion here

>>>
>>> No, as noted before if we define |A| to be the number
>>> of finitely-indexed balls in the set A, the statement is
>>> true.

>>
>> If you define |A| to be the number of finitely-labeled balls in set A,
>> then, for coherence to the usual terminology, the set A must be the set
>> of finitely-labeled balls. That statement is *at last* false, if not
>> utterly nonsensical, should you ever bother to spell it out.
>>
>> Now, again: have you got any set-theoretical statement of the
>> Ross-Littlewood problem (for every n, 10 balls get in and 1 gets out)
>> from which one can derive (prove) that the set of balls ends up empty
>> (i.e. that the cardinality of the limit of this sequence of sets is
>> zero)? I won't ask anymore: replies welcome...

>
> In fact, that is tantamount to saying that the cardinality of the set N of
> natural numbers is zero, as N is (equivalent to) the limit of the sequence
> "for every n, put 2 balls in and take 1 one out" (defined so to satisfy
> the paralogism that every ball gets eventually removed, although it is
> more commonly the set where "for every n, 1 ball (labeled n) gets in").
>
> In short, I still claim, nonsense and surely not a problem with set
> theory.


BTW, you haven't commented on this one. It seems to me that, if the vase
ends up empty in set theory, then set theory is provably inconsistent, not
simply unsound.

-LV




Date Subject Author
7/7/12
Read Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/7/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
FredJeffries@gmail.com
7/7/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Jim Burns
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Marshall
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/13/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
YBM
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
YBM
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/11/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Gus Gassmann
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/12/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/14/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/10/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Ralf Bader
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
William Hughes
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
LudovicoVan
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/7/12
Read Re: Matheology � 062
Virgil
7/8/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Graham Cooper
7/9/12
Read Re: Matheology § 062
Sam Gusset

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