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Topic: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Replies: 36   Last Post: Aug 4, 2012 4:36 PM

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kirby urner

Posts: 2,578
Registered: 11/29/05
Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Posted: Aug 4, 2012 2:47 PM
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On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Robert Hansen <bob@rsccore.com> wrote:

> I am just relaying what it looks like in the real world of IT. I can only imagine what it looks like in adult and gang education. This reminds me of some of these other teachers, like Dy/Dan, who teach at the level of students not interested in or not prepared for a subject, and then they come back to report they know a better way to teach that subject. Inspiration is good, but as I said before, that is only 5% of the journey (the saying only gives it credit for 1%).
>


My world is probably no less "real world IT" than yours.

The story with gangs was interesting. The public schools, private too
maybe, were asking the police to make uniformed appearances in
classrooms to lay it on heavy about copyrights and the dangers of
piracy, the evilness of hackers.

In the meantime, the same police were discovering pretty much on their
own this open source niche of shangri-la practices wherein you were
not only *expected* to copy assets, but *encouraged* to download and
improve them.

Police (HPD), thinking to themselves: "why are we being used to scare
kids when the schools should be showing them the ropes in this
crime-free utopia, thereby freeing us to go after the real bad guys?"

A completely logical thought process and only one flaw in the
logical response: "we'll teach them about this world ourselves" --
the flaw being that kids are afraid of police stations and won't go
there voluntarily for the most part (a chicken and egg kind of thing).

Their Linux lab (where I taught) was under-utilized.

But for awhile there, with Jerritt, myself, and officer George Heuston
(on occasion) in the classroom, we showed it could work.

I think some police took heart across the land, seeing their own
engaged in such intelligent response work. Why teach fear when we
could be enjoying a playground together?

Much more Norman Rockwell. George liked this image better:

http://www.arlo.net/pictures/runaway.jpg

I was able to get this one:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kirbyurner/6227234424/in/set-72157627710609369
(Portland officer with OPDX faculty member, 2011)

Of course town-gown relations are not always so benign. Leave it to
IT engineers to make it work.

> I could see a two year (11th and 12th grade) program for high school students that would then lead to a job as a network technician. This would be followed with 3 years of actual experience working for a company. You can say the same for software as well. You could hire bright kids right out of high school and in a couple years they would be further in the field than any CS college student could imagine. Some companies actually do this. Facebook is known for hiring students prior to completing college. It gives them an advantage in the draft I guess.
>


Yes, I see you acknowledging that my proposed Digital Math track (vs.
Analog / Calculus) has plenty of light at the end of the tunnel, in
terms of industry demand.

But I'm saying Digital Math (with tcp/ip) is also good prep for sleepy
college pre-med, on to medical doctor or chemistry prof in charming
New England or whatever horse and buggy lifestyle one craves. Many
doors beside "working for CISCO" if we do Digital Math ala STEM, I'm
sure of it.

Not that CISCO is a terrible fate or anything. Lots of students would
trade their PhD in taxi driving for something more STEMish.

> The problem with your gifted approach is that it doesn't filter out the flakes that wouldn't be good employees.
>
> Bob Hansen
>


What "gifted"? You're mixing that with "entitled" as it's sort of the
managerial cast who needs overview and situation room savvy. So maybe
"we" don't expect "joe ghetto" to be learning about tcp/ip.

I do though, cuz hacker and gangsta and hip hop are not completely
alien to one another (punk a kind of bridge). We have Weird Al in
'White 'n Nerdy' for example. Yes, he's more gifted than many geeks,
in terms of musical talent, but nor is he just the bespectacled
engineer in the windowless basement (the proverbial hangout).

Funny story: O'Reilly planned to bust geeks out of their stereotype
by staging a full throttle outdoor picnic in the front area, outside
the Convention Center, a summer stage complete with tents.

Threats of summer storms loomed however.

So we ended up having it in a windowless fluorescent lit holodeck,
reinforcing the geek stereotype all the more (how ironic).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kirbyurner/7595057148/in/set-72157630651981612
(Tim O'Reilly in the dunking tank shouting he loves the DMCA ** )

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kirbyurner/7595067558/in/set-72157630651981612/
(holodeck picnic)

Kirby

** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act


>
> On Aug 4, 2012, at 12:50 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Robert Hansen <bob@rsccore.com> wrote:
>>> I think you meant to say Cisco VOIP network engineers over here and Cisco
>>> security network engineers over there and several more specialties, and then
>>> repeat it all for Lucent, Motorola etc... It got real specialized and uber
>>> complicated in the last 20 years Kirby.
>>>
>>> Bob Hansen
>>>

>>
>> TCP/IP is a standard that all these branded devices use and follow,
>> regardless of interface. That's the kind of generalized "people
>> agree" type standard in which mathematics traffics, so not out of
>> place. Lots of hexadecimal numbers.



Date Subject Author
7/29/12
Read Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
7/29/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
7/30/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Haim
7/30/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
7/31/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Clyde Greeno @ MALEI
7/31/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
7/31/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Clyde Greeno @ MALEI
7/30/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Haim
7/30/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Wayne Bishop
7/31/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
7/31/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Clyde Greeno @ MALEI
7/31/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Haim
8/1/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
7/31/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Clyde Greeno @ MALEI
8/1/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Haim
8/1/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
8/1/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Wayne Bishop
8/1/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
8/1/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Wayne Bishop
8/1/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
8/1/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Wayne Bishop
8/2/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Haim
8/2/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
8/2/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Haim
8/2/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Wayne Bishop
8/2/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
kirby urner
8/2/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
8/2/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
kirby urner
8/3/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
8/3/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
kirby urner
8/3/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Wayne Bishop
8/3/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
kirby urner
8/3/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
8/4/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
kirby urner
8/4/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Robert Hansen
8/4/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
kirby urner
8/3/12
Read Re: Overdoing Algebra too Early
Haim

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