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Topic: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Replies: 22   Last Post: Oct 9, 2012 6:06 PM

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Paul A. Tanner III

Posts: 5,920
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Posted: Oct 8, 2012 5:06 AM
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On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 1:23 AM, Robert Hansen <bob@rsccore.com> wrote:
>
> On Oct 7, 2012, at 5:16 PM, Paul Tanner <upprho@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If "the standards" means the minimum requirements for passing on to
> the next grade and then graduating from high school, then the claim
> that "they lowered the standards and negated the strides of the
> previous generations" is a baldfaced falsity.
>
> There used to be no exit exam for any grade, period. Now there are for
> many grades, and for high school graduation they get harder as time
> goes on in that each incarnation covers more material or the
> combination of end-of-course exams covers more material. (The first
> high school exit exam in FL in the 1980s was just arithmetic, no
> algebra at all. Now there are exit exams on every math course that
> they have to have to take to graduate, including algebra and
> geometry.)
>
>
> This is a ridiculous statement.

...
> Just having students take algebra and an exit exam means NOTHING if the
> standards are crap.


Utter, utter, insanity.

Because you are tacitly claiming the utter insanity that those who
never took Algebra I or Geometry 40 years ago would have been able to
pass the Algebra I and Geometry exit exams today without ever having
studied these subjects - you are tacitly claiming the insanity that
people who never study a subject would be able to pass comprehensive
tests on that subject without ever studying it.

Those that never took algebra would be like my brother and a whole
bunch more people I know who never took algebra back then - they would
not have been able to answer even a single algebra question.

Utter, utter, insanity.

> There wasn't exit exams before because there was no need
> for them.
>


The first exit exams in FL were in the early 1980s. The first exit
exams had NO algebra on them. It was like that for many years before
they started putting algebra on them and only after they required
everyone to take and pass Algebra I to graduate. Now it's Geometry and
now soon even Algebra II.

And what about those who never took algebra, they would be able to
pass today's comprehensive algebra tests without ever studying
algebra? I repeat: They that never took algebra would be like my
brother and a whole bunch more people I know who never took algebra
back then - they would not have been able to answer even a single
algebra question. You tacitly put forth this utter insanity that they
would have been able to pass today's comprehensive algebra tests
without ever having studying algebra.

> > And this: The math classes in the middle school levels and the algebra
> classes up through Algebra II are much harder than they used to be in
> that they cover more advanced material. I already proved in past posts
> this fact by comparing the content of Algebra I and Algebra II texts
> from today to 40 years ago.

>>
>
> Which texts?


Compare the older texts to today's texts. It's pure fact.

You really need to go to the library or even just ask people who have
been teaching high school all through the last part of the 20th
century into the first part of the 21st.

Consider the Harcourt Brace Jovanovich Algebra 1 and Algebra II
textbooks published back in the 1980s. These textbooks were exactly as
I remember the textbooks used by my high school years in the 1970s.
The rate of algebraic material coverage of the Algebra I and Algebra
II sequence was so slow, the quadratic formula was introduced only
towards the end of Algebra II. There was no mention at all in the
Algebra II textbook of these things at the precalculus level needed as
prerequisites for calculus, which would include advanced treatments of
polynomial functions (and including such topics as the binomial
theorem) and would include the transcendental functions (exponential
functions, logarithmic functions, trigonometric functions). Back then
in the 1970s, the community college for our whole county required a
precalculus class at the community college as a prerequisite for
calculus because of the fact that Algebra II as taught in the high
schools throughout the county did not contain this precalculus level
material that was needed for calculus and because most who went into
the college did not take a precalculus-level math course in high
school since it was not offered most of the time in most of the high
schools back then in that county.

Again: There is absolutely no comparison between the topics covered in
that Algebra 2 textbook in early 1970s in my old high school and that
Harcourt Brace Jovanovich 1980s Algebra 2 textbook and the topics
covered in, say, "Algebra 2: Applications, Equations, Graphs"; Larson,
Boswell, Kanold, Stiff; McDougal Littell:

http://www.nutshellmath.com/textbooks_glossary_demos/textbook_content/alg2_apps_equations_graphs.html

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The comparison is so overwhelming between now and 3 or 4 decades ago
in so many schools districts, Algebra I and Algebra II now covers so
vastly more material than 3 and 4 decades ago in so many school
districts, it is pure fraud to claim that minimum standards are no
higher today than they were 3 or 4 decades ago in terms of what these
courses cover in so many school districts - just as it is pure fraud
to claim that the minimum standards required for high school
graduation today are no higher than what they were 3 or 4 decades ago
in so many school districts.

And not only that:

The percentage of the population taking advanced math has exploded
compared to 40 years ago. We've been through this before, you claiming
that more people took calculus back then when I proved from even your
citations that the total taking calculus now is three times greater
than it was.

Example: Many high schools all over the country back then were like my
high school then - and mine was a relatively large one, not far from a
thousand for just the three grades starting at 10th: No calculus
courses, some years not even enough students to even have just
pre-calculus after that low level Algebra II I spoke of. In my senior
year, there would have been only about a half dozen students that were
planning to take that precalculus class, and since that was not enough
students, it was not offered.


>> And also this: The minimum college math requirements to get certified
> to teach math at either the middle school or high school levels are
>> vastly higher than they used to be 40 years ago.
>
>
> Again, this means nothing. You are telling us the POLITICAL requirements. I
> am talking about the actual requirements. The requirements that a parent
> like me looks for.
>


You simply do not know what you are talking about. I guess you would
rather go back to the "good old days" 40 years ago when in FL the
highest level course required to get certified to teach high school
was just Calc II - when now the minimum is that we have to take not
just Calc III but several courses post-Calc III.

What you say is so insanely dumb, such an incredible complete denial
of fact after fact after fact - everything in my prior post
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7902143
is just plain fact - as to the large increase in the MINIMUM standards
imposed on the whole population of students and teachers, one really
wonders.


Date Subject Author
10/5/12
Read Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Jerry P. Becker
10/6/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/6/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/7/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Paul A. Tanner III
10/8/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/8/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Paul A. Tanner III
10/8/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/8/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/8/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Paul A. Tanner III
10/8/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Haim
10/8/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Paul A. Tanner III
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Paul A. Tanner III
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Paul A. Tanner III
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Paul A. Tanner III
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Paul A. Tanner III
10/8/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Robert Hansen
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
GS Chandy
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
GS Chandy
10/9/12
Read Re: Exit Exams Face Pinch in Common-Core Push
Haim

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