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Topic: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Replies: 23   Last Post: Oct 23, 2012 8:55 PM

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Wayne Bishop

Posts: 4,996
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Posted: Oct 18, 2012 9:58 PM
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I think this idea is inspired. It is a concrete goal that (won't
but) could be possible. As a high school teacher (some years ago), I
was pressured to get my masters degree but never considered anything
but a masters in mathematics, not an MAT, much less in education in
general secondary education or some such BS that is no better than
without (maybe worse) and certainly not worth more money. These
days, the former is not the case. High school teachers seeking
honest masters degrees in mathematics are trying to move up to the
community college level and get out of high school teaching
entirely. As it turned out, lucky me, the NSF bribed me into going
after the PhD and I never taught high school again (but that was not
my original intent, I enjoyed the experience). However, my interest
in the precollegiate environment and decent mathematics preparation
of prospective teachers stems from this experience.

Wayne

At 09:06 AM 10/18/2012, Greg Goodknight wrote:
>On 10/18/2012 07:32 AM, Haim wrote:
>>lajones Posted: Oct 18, 2012 6:14 AM
>>

>>>Thank you, Robert, for posing this extremely important
>>>question. I'm a high school math teacher who has been
>>>wondering the same thing for many, many years.

>> The only thing that is not clear is why Robert and others keep
>> asking the question. The answer is staring us in the face. One
>> has only to compare Jo Boaler to Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
>>as one good example, to grok the institution of education as it
>>currently exists in the U.S.
>>
>> Of course, if Jo Boaler were an aberration, the discussion
>> would be entirely different. But, she is not and it is not, and
>> it is has been this way for several generations. How could it be
>> simpler and clearer? There are no scientific standards in
>> education research because education research is not science.
>>
>> That education is not science is incontrovertible. It remains
>> only to work out what it is. I do not claim to have the
>> authoritative answer, but until somebody can propose a better one,
>> my working hypothesis is that education is social
>> engineering. Less gently, it is ideology. Or, as our own Wayne
>> Bishop puts it, it is religion.
>>
>> That this one group of ideologues completely dominates the
>> institution of public education is politics. The Education Mafia
>> is enormously powerful politically and they have many sympathizers.
>>
>> That is the long and the short of it. What, if anything, the
>> rest of us can do about it is not so clear and needs to be
>> discussed. What is abundantly clear to me is that, at least at
>> this moment in our historical development, any kind of direct
>> confrontation with the Education Mafia will fail.
>>
>> And yet, I am not a pessimist. I think there are potentially
>> effective alternatives to a crusade against the Education
>> Mafia. But, until people like Robert, Wayne, and Greg finally abandon hope
>>http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/abandon-hope-all-ye-who-enter-here.html
>>of reforming the Education Mafia there is no use in exploring those
>>alternatives.

>
>For the life of me, I can't think of any reason why you think I'd
>have hope for the Ed biz to reform itself. As long as tax dollars
>meant to improve the education of our people is spent by the current
>system, we'll have the current system that is built around the
>concept that if they spend the money and the result is poor, even
>more will be spent.
>
>Personally, I think ending the current K-12 pay scales that rewards
>graduate coursework and advanced degrees by teachers would do
>wonders. I got my MS Electrical Engineering not because I'd get an
>automatic pay increase (that doesn't happen in industry) but because
>I felt my career would be boosted by the knowledge I'd gain, and
>yes, if you want to be an engineer it helps to have a degree in
>engineering. Imagine elementary school teachers taking real math
>courses in their spare time so they can teach well enough to pass
>muster with some grounded evaluation tool like Value Added. Or to
>get near the top of the evaluation pile to earn bonuses as a mentor for others.
>
>Most K-12 teachers would not take graduate Ed courses were they not
>paid more because of them, so removing that incentive would shrink
>the need for Education Ph.D.'s needed to teach those classes.
>Vouchers would also allow parents a say in which schools their kids
>will attend. Implementing those reforms are more likely than the Ed
>leopard changing its spots voluntarily.
>
>- -Greg
>
>
>

>> I think Wayne is coming around to my point of view. As one of
>> the walking wounded in the California Front of The Math Wars,
>> Wayne learned his lesson the hard way.
>>
>> And that, in sum, informs most of my efforts in this forum. I
>> am trying, to the best of my meager abilities, to persuade our
>> comrades in this forum that reform is impossible and that we have
>> to explore alternatives.
>>
>> Robert himself is an optimist of a sort. He expects an end to
>> the current educational regime, but he expects this end to come in
>> the form of a collapse. This is a distinct possibility. I would
>> like to avoid this collapse. To paraphrase Gil Scott-Heron, the
>> collapse will not be televised. We will live this collapse, and
>> we are not going to like it.
>>
>> In the modern parlance of Wall Street, Big Education is
>> TBTG: To Big To Fail. Education is a very large, very important,
>> and deeply rooted element of our society. If education collapses,
>> it will take a lot of our society down with it. A lot of people
>> are going to get hurt, and it will take us a long time, if ever,
>> to put the pieces back together.
>>
>> What I frankly believe is that one major part of this problem
>> is that Americans have been too fat and happy, too safe and
>> comfortable, for too long. Most Americans do not know how bad it
>> can get. Oh, they see the images on TV of refugees in Syria and
>> demonstrations in Greece but, for Americans, there is an unreality
>> to them. It is hard to distinguish those images from "The Price Is Right"
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_price_is_right
>>For this reason, and maybe others, Americans are far too complacent
>>about the impending educational collapse. In the words of Aragorn
>>to Frodo, we "are not nearly frightened enough."
>>
>>Haim
>>No representation without taxation.



Date Subject Author
10/15/12
Read Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Robert Hansen
10/15/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Haim
10/16/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Michael Weiss
10/16/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Haim
10/18/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
lajones
10/18/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Haim
10/18/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Greg Goodknight
10/18/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Wayne Bishop
10/18/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Haim
10/19/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
GS Chandy
10/19/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
GS Chandy
10/19/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
GS Chandy
10/19/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
GS Chandy
10/19/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
lajones
10/19/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Haim
10/22/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Greg Goodknight
10/22/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Robert Hansen
10/22/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Wayne Bishop
10/22/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Robert Hansen
10/19/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
lajones
10/20/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Wayne Bishop
10/22/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Haim
10/22/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
Haim
10/23/12
Read Re: Why Aren't There Standards in Education Research
lajones

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