Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Topic: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Replies: 87   Last Post: Nov 17, 2012 4:34 AM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Haim

Posts: 7,841
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Posted: Oct 23, 2012 11:37 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

Kirby Urner Posted: Oct 23, 2012 9:35 PM

>No one in their 40s has been EM for 60 years, so
>internally there's a sense of new people trying new
>things.


No, there isn't. There really is such a thing as "corporate culture".

>I have a hard time distinguishing your EM from the
>Idiocracy more generally.


The Education Mafia are idiots with power.

>Are you sure this isn't just the monopoly of the
>mediocre? When was it so much better? What exactly
>happened 60 years ago again?


There are several interesting dates for marking the beginning of the modern era in public education. Wayne, if I rightly recall, with considerable justification dates the dawn of the modern era with a certain publication by John Dewey. This would be sometime around 1920. So Wayne would be right if you are interested in the intellectual history of modern education.

I am more interested in the political history of modern American education. In this case, two interesting dates are 1965 and 1968. 1965, more or less, is when the NEA stopped pretending it was a professional association and revealed itself as a trade union. 1968 is when they went out on a major strike and transformed the political landscape of NYC and all the other major cities in the US.

However, I date the dawn of modern American education at Sputnik, 1957 (so I rounded up when I said 60 yrs). Sputnik is the moment when the financial taps were turned on, and public money has been flooding into public education like a torrent. To a public sector union, money is like steroids. All of a sudden, the teachers unions became really big and hairy and they have been in "roid rage" ever since.

Today, education spending is approaching 50% of the operating budget in many states, and the rest are catching up fast. Fifty percent. In my city, New York, spending on education is around 34% of the annual operating budget. Once upon a time, the reason you incorporated a city was to have a police department, a fire department, and collect the garbage. But in NYC, if you added police, fire, and sanitation, you would have to multiply the sum by 3 in order to approximate expenditure on education. Education is, by far, the single largest item in the NYC operating budget. In other words, just as many schools run their own cafeterias, NYC is a school that runs its own police, fire, and sanitation.

That's what happened 60 yrs ago.

>Humans don't have a lovely track record.

All the more reason to limit the power of the state. Our Founding Fathers understood this.

>What era are you for turning back the clocks to? For
>what "other tomorrow" do you yearn?


I yearn for reducing the power of the state in general, and eliminating this one state monopoly in particular. I want to see the lights go dark in the U.S. Dept of Education and I want to see the end of public sector unions. Even the architect of the welfare state, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, understood the menace of the public sector union and rejected them. It took the feckless and endlessly destructive John Kennedy to breath life into the public sector unions. And it has been an awful decline ever since.

>I think you should spend less time venting about the
>status quo and more time sketching how it could be so
>much better.


It will be ever so much better if the lights go dark in the US Dept of Education and if public sector unions evaporate. After that, we'll talk.

>Any resonance with this article here? Or is this more EM
>propaganda?


http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20121023144710-10189491-we-need-to-disrupt-education-now

Not sure what this guy wants; hard to tell from that one page. Seems like he is trying to sell something.

Haim
No representation without taxation.


Date Subject Author
10/22/12
Read Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/22/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/22/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/22/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/22/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/22/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Robert Hansen
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Robert Hansen
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/23/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/24/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/24/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
GS Chandy
10/24/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
GS Chandy
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Robert Hansen
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/26/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/26/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
GS Chandy
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/25/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
GS Chandy
10/27/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
10/28/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/28/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/28/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/28/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/29/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/29/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/29/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/29/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/29/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/30/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/29/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/29/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Robert Hansen
10/29/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/29/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/30/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/30/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/30/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
10/30/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
10/30/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
10/30/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
10/31/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/4/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/5/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/5/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Peter Duveen
11/5/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
11/5/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Robert Hansen
11/5/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/5/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/5/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Haim
11/6/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/5/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Salahuddin
11/7/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/7/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
kirby urner
11/7/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/7/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/7/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/7/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/7/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/7/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/8/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/8/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/8/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/8/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/12/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/12/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/12/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/12/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Paul A. Tanner III
11/12/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
GS Chandy
11/14/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
israeliteknight
11/15/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
GS Chandy
11/17/12
Read Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
GS Chandy

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.