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Topic: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Replies: 156   Last Post: Nov 4, 2012 3:01 PM

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Peter Webb

Posts: 61
Registered: 10/21/12
Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Posted: Nov 2, 2012 6:06 AM
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Graham Cooper wrote:

> On Oct 31, 5:39 pm, "Peter Webb"
> <webbfamilyDIEspam...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> > Graham Cooper wrote:
> > > On Oct 31, 2:34 pm, "Peter Webb"
> > > <webbfamilyDIEspam...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> > > > Graham Cooper wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 31, 1:37 pm, "Peter Webb"
> > > > > <webbfamilyDIEspam...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> > > > > > Graham Cooper wrote:
> > > > > > > On Oct 30, 6:24 pm, "Peter Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > You do claim to have a list of all Reals, don't you?
> >
> > > > > > > I have a listable set of all reals.
> >
> > > > > > > 0.000000.. 0.110000.. 0.111010.. 0.111110.. ...
> > > > > > > 0.000111.. 0.101000.. 0.000010.. 0.001100.. ...
> > > > > > > 0.111000.. 0.010010.. 0.001010.. 0.101010.. ...
> > > > > > > 0.111100.. 0.001011.. 0.000011.. 0.111111.. ...
> > > > > > > ...

> >
> > > > > > > > You haven't specified the list yet.
> >
> > > > > > > AHA! Peter is on the ball!
> >
> > > > > > > No enumeration function! Just a good ole countable SET of
> > > > > > > all reals!

> >
> > > > > > > The order is arbitrary isn't it?
> >
> > > > > > > > > Otherwise your claim to prove anything given any
> > > > > > > > > ENUMER-ABLE SET OF REALS clearly appears to have
> > > > > > > > > failed on the set provided 5 times already.

> >
> > > > > > > > > Herc
> >
> > > > > > > > I made no such claim. To start off with, its nonsense.
> >
> > > > > > > Nonetheless it was the topic before you took over from
> > > > > > > Moeblee.

> >
> > > > > > > On Oct 30, 9:18 am, MoeBlee <modem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I just proved that given any enumerable set S of
> > > > > > > > denumerable binary sequences there is denumerable
> > > > > > > > binary sequence not in S.

> >
> > > > > > > If you do not wish to apply any mathematical approach to
> > > > > > > the given countable set of reals,

> >
> > > > > > > 0.000000.. 0.110000.. 0.111010.. 0.111110.. ...
> > > > > > > 0.000111.. 0.101000.. 0.000010.. 0.001100.. ...
> > > > > > > 0.111000.. 0.010010.. 0.001010.. 0.101010.. ...
> > > > > > > 0.111100.. 0.001011.. 0.000011.. 0.111111.. ...
> > > > > > > ...

> >
> > > > > > That's not a given countable set of Reals.
> >
> > > > > > Its not even a list of a few Reals, or even a single Real.
> >
> > > > > > Lets start with the first Real on your list. Just the first
> > > > > > one. I don't care about the others for the time being. What
> > > > > > is the first Real on your list?

> >
> > > > > 0!  Top left corner!
> >
> > > > OK, what is the second Real on the list?
> >
> > > > > Maybe you should DEFINE what you mean by countable set before
> > > > > asking for one.

> >
> > > > You don't know what a countable set is?
> >
> > > > For the purposes of this thread, you can treat it as a set which
> > > > can be bijected with N.

> >
> > > > Which means you have to specify which values in R correspond to
> > > > which values in N.

> >
> > > > You have already told us that the Real corresponding to n=1 is
> > > > 0.

> >
> > > > Now you can tell us the Real corresponding to n=2.
> >
> > > > Eventually you will need to specify the Reals corresponding to
> > > > all natural numbers n, but I figure the values for n=1 (given)
> > > > and n=2 (next) will be a good start.

> >
> > > This set can be bijected with N
> >
> > > 1/1  1/2  1/3  1/4 ...
> > > 2/1  2/2  2/3  2/4 ...
> > > 3/1  3/2  3/3  3/4 ...
> > > 4/1  4/2  4/3  4/4 ...
> > > ...

> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >
> >

> > > similarly this set of reals CAN-BE bijected with N
> >
> > >  0.000000.. 0.110000.. 0.111010.. 0.111110.. ...
> > >  0.000111.. 0.101000.. 0.000010.. 0.001100.. ...
> > >  0.111000.. 0.010010.. 0.001010.. 0.101010.. ...
> > >  0.111100.. 0.001011.. 0.000011.. 0.111111.. ...
> > >  ...

> >
> > But this isn't a list of Reals.
> >
> > It is a list of the first few decimal digits of a few unspecified
> > Reals.
> >
> > You need to produce a list of Reals.
> >
> > Lets do this in steps.
> >
> > What is the second Real on your list?
> >
> >
> >

> > > Hence, you CANNOT prove a COUNTABLE SET OF REALS is incomplete.
> >
> > > PROOF:  This is the 10th time asking.
> >
> > > In fact, I call this  THE UNANSWERABLE QUESTION  for a reason!
> >
> > > Herc
> >
> > And the second Real on your list is?

>
> OK use this countable set of reals.
>
> 1/10  1/20  1/30  1/40 ...
> 2/11  2/21  2/31  2/41 ...
> 3/31  3/32  3/33  3/34 ...
> 4/17  4/27  4/37  4/47 ...
> ...
>
> what's missing?
>
> Herc


pi - 3

So your list of all Reals is missing pi - 3. Turned out it wasn't a
list of all Reals after all.

So at least that is cleared up; you now know your list of all Reals
doesn't include all Reals you can stop going on about it.


Date Subject Author
10/27/12
Read Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/27/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Frederick Williams
10/27/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Tim Little
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Michael Stemper
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
David C. Ullrich
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
David C. Ullrich
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
David C. Ullrich
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/27/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
INFINITY POWER
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
INFINITY POWER
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Virgil
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Frederick Williams
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Richard Tobin
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Frederick Williams
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Hercules ofZeus
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Hercules ofZeus
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Arturo Magidin
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Hercules ofZeus
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Arturo Magidin
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Hercules ofZeus
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Frederick Williams
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Pubkeybreaker
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
magidin@math.berkeley.edu
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Virgil
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
MoeBlee
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
11/2/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
11/1/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
11/1/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Hercules ofZeus
11/2/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Richard Tobin
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
MoeBlee
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
MoeBlee
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Richard Tobin
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Richard Tobin
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Richard Tobin
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Virgil
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/30/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
adamk
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
11/1/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
11/1/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Jesse F. Hughes
11/2/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
11/2/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
11/2/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
11/2/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
11/2/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Virgil
11/2/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
11/2/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
11/3/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
11/3/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
11/4/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Peter Webb
11/4/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Virgil
11/4/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
11/1/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
10/31/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Graham Cooper
10/28/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
J. Antonio Perez M.
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
David C. Ullrich
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
JRStern
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
LudovicoVan
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Fernando Revilla
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
10/29/12
Read Re: Peer-reviewed arguments against Cantor Diagonalization
adamk

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