The Math Forum

Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by NCTM or The Math Forum.

Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Notice: We are no longer accepting new posts, but the forums will continue to be readable.

Topic: An Educational Mystery
Replies: 4   Last Post: Nov 20, 2012 10:29 AM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Wayne Bishop

Posts: 5,465
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: An Educational Mystery
Posted: Nov 5, 2012 11:17 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

It's one of the great flaws (along with the title
and some other things) NCLB, No Child Left
Behind. The worse you are doing, the easier it
is to make year-by-year progress and be treated
glowingly. If you are already at the top, the
loss of a point or two is presented as something
terrible. More Industry wisdom.


At 07:44 AM 10/30/2012, Haim wrote:
>The item below, in The Paper of Record, caught
>my attention. As it happens, this elementary
>school is my son's alma mater and I know it inside out.
> First, a light-hearted moment. So, the gist
> of the NYT article is that people far outside
> the catchment will lie, cheat, and steal to get
> their children into this school. Yet, the
> DOPE's ("Dept of Public Education") progress
> report on PS 321 gives the school an overall
> grade of "B" mostly because of its Student
> Progress grade of "D". How to understand the
> seeming paradox of families desperate to gain entrance to an okay school?
> Maybe somebody can help me out, but I see
> only three possible explanations. Either the
> Education Mafia are morons and they produce a
> report that is mainly worthless, or people are
> stupid and do not understand the value of the
> report, or the report is a tangible measure of
> the disconnect between Education Mafia ideology
> and the hopes and aspirations of the common citizens.
> But now, there is a deeper mystery. So,
> here we have, in PS 321, a school that is
> highly desirable to very many people. What is
> it about PS 321 that is so desirable and, if it
> is so desirable, why do the Education Mafia not
> duplicate these desirable elements in other NYC
> elementary schools? I can tell you that the
> desirability of PS 321, if not unique, is
> certainly rare and of very long standing: the
> school was highly desirable years before my son
> attended and it remains highly desirable some eight yrs after he "graduated".
> That the Education Mafia has not replicated
> this school, many times, is plainly evident
> from the NYT article. So, I am racking my
> brains figuring out what about PS 321 is so
> hard to replicate. In The People's Republic of
> Brooklyn, in The Church of The Democratic
> Party, in the very Mordor of American
> liberalism, in a borough that voted for Obama
> in 2008 at a rate north of 90% (and will most
> likely do so again next week), could this be the explanation:

> >Demographic Factors
> >White: 72%

>in a public school population that is about 14% white?
>No representation without taxation.
>- -----------------------------
>October 29, 2012
>At an Overcrowded School in Park Slope, No One Wants to Leave
>As the day draws to a close at Public School
>321, the school that launched a thousand
>strollers toward Park Slope, Brooklyn, the
>grown-ups begin to assemble outside. Bus drivers
>pull their long yellow ferries up out front.
>Parents and caretakers hover near doorways and perch on benches.
>Some adults wait in cars, ready to shuttle their
>little students to homes far away, even far
>outside the school’s prescribed zone.
>They are beneficiaries of a longstanding
>regulation in New York City that says that once
>children are registered at a public school, they
>can remain until they graduate, regardless of
>where in the city they live after registration day.
>But Park Slope has seen a lot of development in
>recent years, especially in family-size
>apartments, and the Education Department is
>pushing forward a plan to redraw several zones
>in the area and add a new school, in an effort
>to keep overcrowded institutions from becoming
>even more tightly packed. If the plan is
>approved, the zone devoted to P.S. 321 will
>shrink by the equivalent of about 10 city
>blocks. The catchment area for another crowded
>and popular Park Slope school, P.S. 107, will be slimmer by about five blocks.
>Suddenly, this longstanding regulation for
>children who move has slid directly into the eye
>of a fraught fight. Many parents on blocks
>facing rezoning, who bought their homes
>expressly so their children could attend a
>particular school, are furious and panicked. And
>there is a sense among many of them, who pile
>into community meetings and online forums, that
>families who touch down in the neighborhood just
>long enough to register their children,
>sometimes for just a year or less, may be
>following the letter of the regulation but are not following its intent.
>“They’re safe,” said Leslie Uretsky, a
>parent of two young children who are being zoned
>out of P.S. 321 and into a new school. “My
>daughters would be an experiment.”
>School officials say it is primarily the new
>construction that is creating the untenable
>trend of overcrowding, not the children who
>attend P.S. 321 but live far away. Nonetheless,
>parents living in the zone say that the children
>who live elsewhere are taking up precious seats,
>and that families who come to the area without
>plans to stay long are taking advantage of the rules.
>Though the circumstances surrounding those
>families who do not stay vary widely, more often
>than not it was the school that drew the parents
>in, and it is economics that forces them out.
>When it was time for Stefan Fredrick’s
>daughter to start school, he and his family
>moved from their rental in Park Slope, just
>outside the P.S. 321 zone, to another rental
>within the zone. The apartment was not ideal.
>“It cost a fortune,” Mr. Fredrick said,
>“and to spend that and having mice running around wasn’t great.”
>After years of looking for a home to buy, and
>putting down a few bids on apartments in the
>P.S. 321 zone, Mr. Fredrick said his family
>found a place in Gowanus, just a few blocks away
>from the school but outside its zone. So they took it.
>“It was not our intention to zip in and zip
>out,” he said. “We would have stayed if we could have.”
>Francesca Pope, who was retrieving two of her
>four children from P.S. 321 last week in a gray
>minivan, said it was economics that forced her
>family, as well, to move out. Ms. Pope grew up
>in Park Slope, in the house where her father was
>raised, she said, but when she was pregnant with
>her third son, the apartment where she and her
>husband were living was sold. The apartments
>they could afford in the area were untenable for
>a family with more than two children.
>“Even our bed wouldn’t fit in some of those places,” she said.
>They moved to Flatbush, but she did not want to
>take her children out of the school they knew.
>Ms. Pope has two sons there now — if a school
>has the room, siblings of students already in
>the school can enroll, even if they do not live
>in that zone — and she continues to volunteer at
>coat drives, class trips and fund-raisers.
>“Families are really truly invested in the
>school, even if they leave the neighborhood,”
>Ms. Pope said. “It’s a source of stability.”
>The relocation rule, which has been on the books
>for at least two decades, provides children with
>an important modicum of stability, even if their
>families move around, educators say.
>“Switching schools disrupts education,” said
>Carrie Marlin, a planning official at the
>Education Department. “We think all students deserve continuity.”
>None of that, however, is of great comfort to
>the families being squeezed out of the zone, who
>say they are being blindsided, with little
>warning and less opportunity to be heard. The
>plan will be put to a vote in the coming weeks
>by the district’s Community Education Council,
>which controls rezoning; if passed, it will go
>into effect for the next school year.
>At a community meeting this month, Elizabeth
>Phillips, the principal of P.S. 321, said that
>while the majority of students who live outside
>of the zone lived within it at some point, there were those who never did.
>“Are there people who lie about their address?
>Of course,” she said before a roomful of
>jittery parents. “We check as much as we can.
>We do home visits. But there is a limit.”
>One official said schools sometimes had success
>rooting out parents who were lying about their
>address simply by asking for more documentation
>when they went in to register, which led some parents to stop trying.
>Another factor in this very expensive
>neighborhood is property values. Ruthanne
>Pigott, president and owner of Brenton Realty, a
>local brokerage, said there was a premium built
>into prices of apartments in the P.S. 321 zone.
>And though prices in the neighborhood are
>extremely high even outside the zone, many
>families are anxious about the prospect of losing that premium.
>Jean-Francois Collard, a parent in the
>neighborhood that is being redrawn out of that
>zone, said he and his wife planned to sell their
>apartment to pay his children’s college
>tuition; now he fears that they could end up $100,000 short.
>One thing most of the neighborhood’s parents
>can agree on is that there is no perfect
>solution to P.S. 321’s crowding problem.
>Another is that when it comes to children, a
>primal rule applies. Said Katie Keating, a P.S.
>321 parent: “You can’t really fault a parent
>for trying to get their kid the best situation they can.”
>Randy Leonard contributed reporting.

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© The Math Forum at NCTM 1994-2018. All Rights Reserved.