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Re: Necessary and Sufficient Conditions For Genuine Scientific Research  Response To Greeno
Posted:
Nov 8, 2012 11:43 PM


Re: Schremmer's: "It is interesting to see what happens when these same students are led on a different path, namely learning how to think by themselves the way mathematicians do rather than take the teacher's wordin other words on a reason based path."
It also would be quite interesting to see a semidetailed description of what happens ... with/to/for/within/etc. such students and their educational potentials. It seems fair to presume that Alain is talking about students enjoying educational benefits that they could not acquire by following a traditional path ... and that such students emerge happier, mentally healthier, and potentially more productive and prosperous than they otherwise would.
To achieve that kind of results on a broad scale, through courses within normally structured TYC curricula, seemingly would be very difficult ... due to the parameters that presently constrain program operations, as well as how most TYC math teachers have been reared. The sorely needed initial models are far more likely to be produced *outside* the normal TYC structure.
It almost seems that Schremmer is hinting toward some kind of a noncurricular "math internship" program for collegecertain students to take BEFORE taking TYC courses of any kind ... focusing NOT on the "content preparation" of students, but on upgrading their "mathematicalthinking powertools." Might even be an arena for some educational research of a more scientific kind than what has been proposed by the NRC.
Considering Obama's well publicized concerns about community colleges  and less publicized groping for "sciencebased educational research"  funding for such innovations are likely to become readily available. But because those projects might be at odds with entrenched TYC programs and personnel, they might have to be conducted through universities or other NPOs  perhaps even through some school systems' Adult Education Programs.
Any other such missionaries around?
Cordially, Clyde
  From: "Alain Schremmer" <schremmer.alain@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 7:33 PM To: <mathedcc@mathforum.org> Subject: Re: Necessary and Sufficient Conditions For Genuine Scientific Research  Response To Greeno
> > On Nov 8, 2012, at 10:34 AM, He, Jing Yun wrote: > >> In Ancient China, my ancestors formulated a good way of teaching: They >> did not ask learners to jump to study, instead, they asked their >> students to prepare to learn. Preparation takes many years before >> learners are able to learn. Preparation includes learners straighten up >> their attitudes and build up humble attitudes. > > Humble in what way? Knowing the limits of one's knowledge? Or taking the > teachers' word that they know better? > >> In other words, Preparation is to teach learners to be virtuous first. > > I see a slight problem here: Who is to decide what virtue is? > >> Then once the quality is established, then learners learn various kinds >> of knowledge based on their interests. Overall, nobody can teach >> learners who are not sincere in pursuing knowledge. > > In reality, particularly in this country, things are a little bit more > complicated. Students entering twoyear colleges > (1) have been brainwashed for twelve years into "knowing" that learning > means memorizing and that they cannot hack it. > (2) find it very difficult to accept that they have been brainwashed if > only because that makes them feel like suckers. > >> If a horse does not want to drink water, then it is useless to force the >> horse to drink. > > True but things are a bit different with students in twoyear colleges > confronted with mathematics because they are usually not really offered > to study mathematics but to continue on a pathmemory based > "learning"which they know they cannot hack. > > It is interesting to see what happens when these same students are led on > a different path, namely learning how to think by themselves the way > mathematicians do rather than take the teacher's wordin other words on > a reason based path. > >> A horse trainer will let the horse thirsty before lead it to bank of >> water. > > Why should it be the horse trainer to want the horse to drink? Why can't > he leave it to the horse? > >> Education should do the same thing! > > This society makes sure that nobody is that thirsty so that they can then > be led to accept any nonsense. > > Regards > schremmer >> **************************************************************************** >> * To post to the list: email mathedcc@mathforum.org * >> * To unsubscribe, email the message "unsubscribe mathedcc" to >> majordomo@mathforum.org * >> * Archives at http://mathforum.org/kb/forum.jspa?forumID=184 * >> **************************************************************************** > > **************************************************************************** > * To post to the list: email mathedcc@mathforum.org * > * To unsubscribe, email the message "unsubscribe mathedcc" to > majordomo@mathforum.org * > * Archives at http://mathforum.org/kb/forum.jspa?forumID=184 * > **************************************************************************** **************************************************************************** * To post to the list: email mathedcc@mathforum.org * * To unsubscribe, email the message "unsubscribe mathedcc" to majordomo@mathforum.org * * Archives at http://mathforum.org/kb/forum.jspa?forumID=184 * ****************************************************************************



