"Don Kelly" wrote in message news:ExZrs.12238$nO.email@example.com...
On 22/11/2012 7:49 PM, Timothy Sutter wrote: > Don Kelly wrote: > >> Timothy Sutter wrote: > >>> Archimedes Plutonium wrote: > >>>> Timothy Sutter wrote: > >>>>>>> and, it really does seem as if >>>>>>> the little whizzers =DO= -have- "flight paths" >>>>>>> and that they are -not- simply in >>>>>>> 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 >>>>>>> places at the same time.... > >>>>>> just look at these images... >>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Various_Spirograph_Designs.jpg >>>>>> see, you don't just see the cloud of uncertainty >>>>>> you see distinctly flight paths... > >>>>> the thing about the spirograph images is that they are =flat= > >>>>> and the atom travails in -volume- and so, 3D images >>>>> and you really would wonder if the shapes of snowflakes -are- >>>>> sort of like the shapes of certain electronic flight paths... >>>>> "but isn't i true that no two snowflakes are alike?" >>>>> have you really looked at all of them? > >>>>> STOP > >>>> Hi Tim, I will stop for 3d volume. > >>>> It has been a long time since I took apart an electric motor of its >>>> windings of copper wire. > >>>> Tell me, are the windings close to being spherical in all? And are the >>>> windings of 1 long copper wire or are they of 2 long copper wires or >>>> more? > >>> i just happen to have the motor of >>> an olde box window fan in the basement. > >>> it's a lot of copper wire and these things called >>> "bushings" that seem to be copper as well. > >>> it doesn't look too much like this one >>> but it resembles it a little bit. > >> The box fan motor is likely a single phase shaded pole induction motor. >> Such a motor will have no commutator as shown in your permanent magnet >> DC motor (it also will not have permanent magnets and the rotor will be >> quite different in general). > > i'm pretty sure i said they didn't look too much alike > but had a little bit of similarity, and, i still say that now. > > my new fan has a fairly small motor with a diameter > of about 5 inches and no exposed copper, but my > old fan motor was larger and you could see blobs > of copper wiring -somewhat- like that scooter motor. Your new fan, considering its size may be a "brushless DC" motor - it too will have coils. > > just seeing the copper coils is a similarity. Yes- there is a similarity- the same as the similarity to a solenoid and a transformer. seeing copper coils in a transformer > > >> The "bushings" are "oilite (sic?)" bearings which are >> typically copper or a copper alloy which is sintered and holds oil. > > my old fan may have had this little felt tipped > front end where you had to oil every so often. That figures. > >> They are cheaper than ball bearings but don't generally last as >> well.. However, these bushings have nothing to do with the >> electrical/magnetic operation of the motor. > > it's possible that these old bushings were carbon > and would crud up after a while and you'd have > to clean up the crud. Doubtful. However graphite has been used as a lubricant. Sintered bronze is common. > > maybe i'll dig it out and take it apart unless > i already disposed of it in an enVIromentally safe manner. > >> As for Archie's question- No- the windings are not spherical at all. > > no, many coils are sort of round or cylindrical and not spheres. > i have an olde starter motor that may be a -little- bit more > like the scooter motor, but i'm, not in the mood to take > it apart right now, as, it is greasy and secure where > it is on its little shelf. Cylindrical is common and practical."sort of round" is meaningless.
> > >> As usual he is off in his own little world -where facts are not >> important. > > > well, yon Pluto does -ask- if the windings are spherical > Pluto doesn't exactly tell me what sort of motor > i have and then tell me how it's constructed. If I am wrong- let me know. Fan- typically 120V (240V in UK) -assumed not to be a new fan (you said old(e)) so what is typical? A form of small induction motor-with coils on the stator. If it is a DC motor, then the construction will be essentially the same as the scooter motor with coils on the rotor and a commutator. The presence of a commutator is a give-away. > -----rant snipped------
====================================================== If DC then even 30 years old it'll be brushless, floppy drives have come and gone long ago, Don. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Floppy_drive_spindle_motor_open.jpg The fan on my computer is variable speed, it speeds up if the processor gets hot and slows to reduce noise. It's difficult to imagine any young engineer designing a commutator in 2012 or any entrepreneur investing in one when it can be made on a chip. I have a TV on a dongle and if you want power just look at the microwave oven, it's a low to high frequency converter at over one horsepower.
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