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Topic: Simple random number generator?
Replies: 5   Last Post: Nov 29, 2012 10:35 AM

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Existential Angst

Posts: 31
Registered: 11/13/11
Re: Simple random number generator?
Posted: Nov 27, 2012 2:22 PM
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"Existential Angst" <> wrote in message
> "Ben Bacarisse" <> wrote in message

>> Clark Smith <> writes:

>>> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:08:17 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:

>>>> Would be the digits of e, pi, et al?
>>>> If that's the case, no need for fancy pyooter algorithms?
>>>> Inneresting article on pi, randomness, chaos.

>>> Is it not the case that the digits of e, pi et al. can't strictly
>>> be random, if it is only because they are highly compressible? I.e.
>>> because there small, compact formulas that spit out as many digits as
>>> you
>>> want in a completely deterministic way?

>> Absolutely.

> Well, as I responded above, Bailey/Crandall would most certainly disagree.

>> Of course, that's also the case for the "fancy pyooter algorithms" that
>> Existential Angst wants to replace, so he or she is not really talking
>> about random but about pseudo-random sequences.

> Well, ackshooly I am talking about true random. Bailey and Crandall are
> hypothesizing that e, pi et al are true random (I like "intrinsically
> random"), but you and others are apparently arguing that because pi can be
> calc'd or generated, it cannot be random. Bailey/Crandall would clearly
> disagree with this.
> Calculating the digits

>> of pi or e etc (and, presumably, some simple combinations thereof) is
>> harder than the super fast "fancy" algorithms already used, so I don't
>> see the benefit.

> Hasn't pi been calc'd to billions of places already? Seems to me that's
> enough random numbers to last people for a while.... lol
> talks a bit about some
> strategies for true random generators. Seem kind of hokey to me, esp. if
> people-based.
> I think "intrinsic experiments", like single-photon slit/diffraction
> experiments would be an elegant way to generate true random numbers -- but
> even that is then dependent on the "legitimacy" of the experimental setup.
> Even flipping a coin can be biased.... it's not that a fair coin is
> inherently random ito heads or tails, but that the *coin tossing
> mechanism* has to be guaranteed to be random, ito of initial conditions.
> No pun intended, but perhaps a dicey proposition ito true randomness.
> Heh, but not a bad pun, eh?

Bottom line to all this, I think this problem has a significant
epistemological component, as it does a mathematical component.
Epistemology is a hard thing to gain perspective on, indeed.... never mind

> --
> EA

>> --
>> Ben.


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