On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Paul Tanner <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > > > This above is evidently a response to my > > "Re: WG 13 Announcement: CERME 8 [Turkey]" > http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7933416 > > in which among other things I pointed out the morally challenged > inconsistency of being against and even denigrating big government, > the only thing that would end so much suffering and premature death > caused by among other things lack of proper health care, yet > practicing and otherwise being in favor of private charity. And my > reply is to simply reiterate the mathematical facts:
Actually it was more a response to GS who was saying he wasn't willing to judge my views in the same harsh light PT was bringing to bear.
Lets look at the mathematics again. Does "money" sustain human settlements or something more basic: sun energy, photosynthesis, an environment that predates money and can't be paid for i.e. can't be replicated minus the geological time scale required to form it. Even if you have trillions of dollars, you're not in a position to create an Hawaiian island, unless maybe we're talking "floating cities".
Say you're like a small Medieval Catholic sanctuary in size, where people live by the toll of the bell. There's morning vespers at 3 AM, followed by a light snack, prayers, then breaking fast more in earnest, followed by chores, a morning service and so on, around the cycle. Many seasonal holidays punctuate the routine. Daylight savings time is recognized. St. John's University MN is a model here, where Father Wenninger lives (a geometer I've met).
Now lets anachronistically give them solar panels, a wind farm, and a server farm in the basement. There's also a well equipped clinic and some of the denizens know how to do C-sections on both humans and non-humans i.e. the role of vet and doctor for humans is somewhat blurred.
Did I mention this colony was co-ed? In the warehouse area, they have the approximately "50 machines" needed for civilization:
The introduction of high technology and the Web brought them out of their formerly Medieval existence and now they're doing archival electronic scanning of rare documents and streaming music for additional income.
Tourists pay to come here on retreat and a few even get medical care here, though it's a rather remote place and mostly the clinic serves the full time residents.
So does the clinic depend on charity? Do these people need to go out into the community with begging bowls? In this case, no, there's no surrounding community to speak of and the hacienda raises its own food for the most part. This is a remote location.
Most getting about is by electric ATV and by horseback, if not on foot. Snowmobiles play a role in the winter (also electric).
Cash reserves are on hand for the infrequently delivered orders from the outside world.
There's an airstrip and the regularly scheduled flight is only once every two weeks, though other planes are parked here and might be used in an emergency e.g. for medevac purposes.
There is no "big government" in this picture directly responsible for the health and welfare of these denizens. Why? In part because many of the people here are from refugee camps originally, where their citizenship was either in question or in limbo.
Some had escaped Burma but never had Burmese passports. Gaining citizenship in the USA is just not in the cards for a lot of them.
Do we still care about health care for people who aren't US citizens?
Paul seems parochially focused on his particular nation-state (formerly a slave-owning nation, but now more of a prison-based nation), one of the more backward and violent, with a lot of the most ignorant teachers (some in political office), weak in STEM. He understandably looks up to the the more together, older, happier states such as Sweden, Norway, and Denmark and wishes his nation could be more like those someday. One might even call him jealous.
I'm not sure if he includes Bhutan in his list of "happy states", probably not, as income per capita is quite low there. Nevertheless, the Bhutanese have had some successful PR as a Happiness Kingdom (not unlike Disneyland in that respect, the Happiest Place on Earth [tm]).
Not everyone with health system planning experience needs to make the USA their focus. Occupy was not and is not exclusively concerned with the health and welfare of so-called "American" citizens. We care about Arab and Farsi speakers as much as English and Spanish speakers.
Occupy was not and is not exclusively concerned with nation-states at all, given how many humans have fallen through the cracks and are not served in any way by the so-called "sovereignties". Take the refugees from Burma for example. Thailand can't afford to make them a priority, nor can Bangladesh. The UN mostly just wrings its hands.
Paul, on the other hand, is parochially obsessed with the immorality of not helping "American citizens" -- but that need not be everyone's principal concern.
Health care for non-Americans is a higher priority than health care for Americans in many a health planning simulation. That's not unethical and it doesn't demonstrate any anti-Americanism necessarily. Given USAers account for only about 4.347% of the population of the world, it makes perfect mathematical sense that 95% of expenditure on health planning and programs belongs elsewhere.
Americans themselves may join a doctors without borders type outfit and perform great service i.e. Americans themselves aren't all obsessed with the 4% either, praise Allah. Having traveled globally quite a bit, I've met many Americans who thought less in terms of nation states and more in terms of ecosystems. Some worked for the FAO in Rome, some were Peace Corps. I've welcomed learning from their diverse perspectives.