Paul A. Tannner III posted Dec 23, 2012 2:45 AM : > > On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 1:04 AM, GS Chandy > <email@example.com> wrote: > > This refers to the exchanges between Paul A. Tanner <snip> > This immense collective power of the people to change > the societal > situation via new laws by those voted into power is > why those > presently running the governments in political > dictatorships all over > the world - Chinese, North Korean, Cuban, Syrian, > Saudi Arabian, you > name it - are not about to give the power to vote to > the people, not > without a fight. > <snip> This post is in additon to something I have just posted, a message I hope will be passed by our Moderator.
In India for sure, I go so far as to claim that, while various electoral 'democracies' are significantly better 'for the people' than are the dictatorships that you have pointed to (with the possible exception of Cuba) - they are in fact often ridden with a great many of the evils that the dictatorships put on their people. Most likely, my claim would be justified in the US as well.
The above argument may serve to clarify several of Kirby Urner's arguments made against 'voting', 'electoral powers through the vote', 'democracies', and the like. Most 'electoral democracies' are, in actual fact, only 'nominal democracies' - and show us only a 'pale shadow' of what real democracies would be. Kirby has pointed to the various 'Occupy' movements that have taken place in various locations around the world as possible pointers to 'true democracy'. I believe he may not be entirely correct in his belief (at least, as I have understood it) - though those 'Occupy' movements certainly do have much to teach us as we strive for democracy.
It was my hope, when the 'Arab Spring' broke out over many Arab countries, that they would show us the route to real democracy. That hope of mine is now more or less dead - I am more certain now that the route to democracy will have to be shown by the following nations:
- - The Scandinavian nations; - - India - - The UK - - The USA - - Various other 'nominal democracies'.
(There is a rough, entirely inadequate and probably incorrect, 'ordering' in the above list. This ordering has to do with my perception of the relative effectiveness of democracy in the specific nation. As noted, this ordering is probably incorrect).