The Math Forum

Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by NCTM or The Math Forum.

Math Forum » Discussions » Education » math-teach

Notice: We are no longer accepting new posts, but the forums will continue to be readable.

Topic: Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Replies: 1   Last Post: Jan 1, 2013 1:52 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
kirby urner

Posts: 3,690
Registered: 11/29/05
Re: Speachless In New York (or, another OMG moment)
Posted: Jan 1, 2013 1:52 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 2:46 AM,
<> wrote:

<< SNIP >>

> iow, IF there were half a BILLION Botswanans in the world, which of course there are NOT, not a SINGLE one of them would have scored 784 and thus demonstrated an IQ of 132.

This habit of developing conversion constants for going between tests
seems awfully "iffy" to me, like comparing apples and oranges. I know
the theoreticians claim there's a ghostly "g factor" behind all these

I know that was / is done for the SAT at some point, to where I was
invited to join Mensa based on high SAT scores.

I thought it my original joke to design the group "Densa" instead (for
recovering Mensa-holics) but then found on Wikipedia that others had
thought of that joke before I did -- not surprising.

The SAT is a measure of scholastic aptitude, meaning it measures
skills (like reading comprehension skills) specific to a particular
way of life, a subculture. It doesn't advertise itself as a test for
assessing basic smarts (whatever that means).

I know you're talking about the TIMMS, not the SAT, but you're doing
the same thing some do with SAT scores: applying some imagined
conversion constant.

This article is interesting: (I
note the term 'racialist' vs. simply 'racist')

The author notes how large (nation-sized) population groups, such as
the Irish, have shifted their IQs in the positive direction (which
would be "to the right" in our right-biased culture -- unless looking
from the other side of the graph), and done so in far shorter time
than any genetic explanation could reasonably account for.

Check back with Botswana in 30 years or so.

Lets also remember that global IQ has been rising in ways the tests
don't show because they're recalibrated to keep 100 at the center of
today's bell curve.

The hypothesis that dense urbanization has a lot to do with these
changes in score makes sense to me, though I'd add access to
conventional scholastic curricula, Internet bandwidth, free time to
study and explore topics, time to play games (both on-line and with

Imagine sitting for a TIMMS and/or IQ test in circumstances such as this: (orphanage in
Botswana -- kids far more likely to have no living parents than in
Hong Kong, not sure by how many standard deviations)

Talk about apples and oranges (incomparable circumstances). If I
connect the Irish and Botswana cases, I'd be led to the hypothesis
that "hope" is a chief indicator. Life in Ireland has seemed less
hopeless of late.

This passage from Wikipedia is probably known to you already, since
you're up on this literature:

"...the concept of race as a meaningful category of analysis is hotly
contested. The authors of two articles in two encyclopedias, the
Encyclopædia Britannica and the Encyclopedia of Race, Ethnicity and
Society, argue that today the mainstream view is that race is a social
construction that is based not mainly in actual biological differences
but rather on folk ideologies that construct groups based on social
disparities and superficial physical characteristics.[39][40]
Sternberg, Grigorenko & Kidd (2005) state that the overwhelming
portion of the literature correlating race with identity has tacitly
adopted folk definitions of race.[38] The American Anthropological
Association in 1998 published a "Statement on 'Race'" which rejected
the existence of "races" as unambiguous, clearly demarcated,
biologically distinct groups.[34] Others argue that this view is
restricted to certain fields, while in other fields, race is still
seen as a valid biological category.[41]"


Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© The Math Forum at NCTM 1994-2018. All Rights Reserved.