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Topic: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Replies: 28   Last Post: Jan 17, 2013 7:25 AM

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GS Chandy

Posts: 6,661
From: Hyderabad, Mumbai/Bangalore, India
Registered: 9/29/05
Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Posted: Jan 15, 2013 11:41 AM
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Haim posted Jan 14, 2013 9:43 PM (GSC's remarks interspersed):
> MPG Posted: Jan 13, 2013 10:24 PM
>

> >Guy Brandenburg posted today:
>
> Naturally, I am warmed by Guy's vigorous defense
> nse of Frontline. I especially welcome his view
> regarding perpetrators of educational fraud,
>
>

I'm sure you, Haim, are warmed to the very cockles of your heart by Guy Brandenburg's "vigorous defense of Frontline". (I don't think).

I'm sure you, Haim, "especially welcome Guy Brandenburg's view regarding perpetrators of educational fraud". (I DON'T THINK!! In fact, on practically every issue, I find Guy Brandenburg's views to be entirely different from Haim's. [I must note that I've had only a VERY casual glance at Guy Brandenburg's website - http://home.earthlink.net/~gfbranden/GFB_Home_Page.html - and his blogpage thus far. I do plan to look at them more carefully]).
> - ---------------------------
> http://gfbrandenburg.wordpress.com/
> If we had a secretary of Education who actually knew
> something about education and learning, and not the
> dishonest idiot we have now (Arne Duncan), then there
> would be a real investigation into all the cheating
> in school system after school system across the
> country, aided and abetted by the likes of DC?s
> Henderson, Ryan, and Rhee.
> - ----------------------------
>

Please observe: Brandenburg seems to want (or he claims so) a real investigation into "ALL the cheating in school system after school system across the country, AIDED AND ABETTED BY THE LIKES OF DC's HENDERSON, RYAN AND RHEE" (CAPS mine).

[I personally believe that the 'conventional investigation' will do not much good for such a deep-rooted malaise as is seen in your educational systems. 'Systemic change' is required. You guys need to study a bit about how to bring about 'systemic change': this is possible to achieve. See right below about tools that can help you guys to work to bring about needed systemic change. {Or maybe you need to study this a lot}.

[Systemic change - aimed to healthy purposes, e.g. "To develop EFFECTIVE public school educational systems for the USA" - will also make it MUCH more difficult for crooks and predators to cheat and destroy systems. These are things they find extremely easy to do in today's incompetent and unhealthy systems - as should be evident to any genuineely concerned person who takes a serious look at those unhealthy systems].
>
> I especially note his comment, "...there would be a
> real investigation into ALL [my caps,HP] the cheating
> in school system after school system across the
> country..."
>

See above, in particular about the need for 'systemic change'.
>
> Yes, indeed, there should be. And, Guy
> seems especially exercised about "monetary fraud",
>

See above.
>
> >Monetary fraud? you may ask.
> >Yes, I reply.
> >Read Adell Cothorne's complaint about the cheating
> >scandal at Noyes and you will see a cogent monetary
> >estimate.

>
See above.
>
> Gentle readers, allow me to point out that the
> the reason Michelle Rhee is in this position, at all,
> is because of the unanimous opinion that the public
> schools across the country, and DC public schools in
> particular, have collapsed. That children would
> spend twelve VERY EXPENSIVE years in these systems,
> graduate with the imprimatur of the states (a high
> school diploma), yet be functionally illiterate,
>

See above.
> - ------------------------
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1
> 21374125
> Her new book, Why cant U teach me 2 read, follows
> three young New Yorkers who legally challenged the
> New York City public schools for failing to teach
> them how to read---and won.
>

I checked out the page, and got the message: "Page not found". My remarks are therefore based on Haim's observations provided.

They won - but did they finally learn "how to read"? Michelle Rhee doesn't seem to know "how to write", which is also fairly important for a person who wants to show people how to fight those who are preventing them from "learning how to read".
>
> http://www.englishliteracyinfo.com/the-extent-and-solu
> tion-to-english-functional-illiteracy/
> Over two million high school graduates or drop-outs
> are added to the rolls of functional illiterates in
> the U.S. every year.
>

I'm not wasting any more of my time or bandwidth to seek out sites that may well inform me "Page Not Found". So, whatever comments I might make relate only to your remarks - NOT to the sites linked.

If "two million high school graduates or drop-outs are added to the rolls of functional illiterates in the US every year", why don't you work out practically how to ensure that you reduce this 'functional illiteracy' that troubles you so? It seems to be a system problem. For information about practical tools to handle system problems, see attachments to a message of mine - link provided towards end of my remarks.
>
> http://www.nrrf.org/essay_Illiteracy.html
> According to current estimates, the number of
> functionally illiterate adults is increasing by
> approximately two and one quarter million persons
> each year. This number includes...20 % of all high
> school GRADUATES [my caps, HP].
>

See above and below, towards the end of my remarks.
>
> http://www.timesleaderonline.com/page/content.detail/i
> d/531475/Reading-the-handwriting-on-the-wall.html?nav=
> 5003
> The answer for some others, though, came after the
> ceremony from one of the still-robed graduates as she
> stood for photos with family in the lobby and tried
> to read the writing on the diploma. She couldn't. Mom
> had to help her with several words.
>

See above and below, towards the end of my remarks.
>
> and so on,
> - --------------------------------
>

See above and below, towards the end of my remarks.
>
> points to one thing and one thing only: massive
> on-going fraud.
>

In my view, it points clearly to the fact that you people do not know (or do not want to know) how to handle 'societal issues and problems'. Fraud may well be there - but that is an inevitable consequence of the ineffective and unhealthy systems in place.
>
> In other words, it is most certainly bad enough
> ugh that children can spend twelve long years in the
> public schools and come away with nothing, but that
> 1/5 of all GRADUATES are functionally illiterate(with
> the clear implication that very many others are of no
> great academic accomplishment) means not only that
> the schools do not deliver on their promises, they
> lie about it. Well, friends, we have a word for
> that: fraud. And, as Guy suggests, this is fraud
> that comes at enormous social, fiscal, and economic
> expense.
>

Indeed. It definitely points to some systemic issues that are hugely costly - in terms of societal, fiscal and economic costs. Fraud is, in the main, one outcome of ineffective systems (as anyone would know who understood systems even a bit).
>
> Michelle Rhee was hired in the desperate hope that
> hat she could do something about that in the DC
> Public Schools system. Everybody, except the
> Education Mafia of course, wanted Rhee to succeed.
> Including Rhee.
>

If Michelle Rhee is incompetent to do the job she took on, then find someone competent. Define the job clearly. Then get out of the way and let the competent person DO the job. These are simple rules, which one would have thought would have occurred to all of you by now.

Apparently they did not, therefore you keep spouting off:

"PUT THE EDUCATION MAFIA IN JAIL!" (and other stuff and nonsense of this nature) - which can have no effect whatsoever on any kind of systemic societal issue.
>
> In short, Michelle Rhee wanted it too much and she
> she committed exactly the same mistake that the
> Education Mafia commit every day.
>

If she made the same mistakes "that the 'Education Mafia' commits every day" - then why do you have your slogan as you have been spouting off forever and not "PUT MICHELLE RHEE IN JAIL!" ?????

I suggest another, more commonsense way. Seek out practical ways to tackle system issues and problems. Learn how to actually use these practical ways to tackle problems in complex issues. Then apply those practical ways to your systems. DON'T give us and the world these gaseous sermons.
>
> In her desperate
> desire to see real improvement, she was too willing
> to believe news that was, literally, too good to be
> true. Having been put in the position of trying to
> do the impossible, exactly like the Education Mafia,
> she ended up---well, if not actually committing, then
> overlooking, tolerating, even suborning,
> fraud---exactly like the Education Mafia.
>

If she did "exactly like the 'Education Mafia', why do you keep shouting "PUT THE EDUCATION MAFIA IN JAIL!" and not "PUT MICHELLE RHEE IN JAIL!" ?????!!!

As noted above, I suggest some practical means to tackle societal issues (which are generally systemic in nature). These practical means do not include issuing these gaseous sermons of yours.
>
> My one and only point is that if Guy Brandenberg
> erg wants to put Michelle Rhee in jail, and that may
> well be what she deserves, then most certainly a
> whole bunch of other people---people I rather
> unkindly refer to as the Education Mafia---need to be
> going to the same place.
>

I suggest, simply, that ALL the stakeholders of the US education systems, including students, teachers, parents, administrators, the 'Education Mafia', Michelle Rhee, Guy Brandenburg and perhaps you too (if your mind is not hermetically sealed against the ingress of new and different ideas) - all of you should learn about practical means to tackle system issues and problems and then learn how to apply them to the real life issues that are plaguing you and your systems. Gaseous sermons not required at all!
>
> Since I have been calling for this for several
> ral years, ...
>

NO! This is not true at all! You have only been shouting out, incessantly, to "PUT THE EDUCATION MAFIA IN JAIL!" and, simultaneously, strenuously refusing to look at practical means to tackle system issues and problems.
>
> I am pleased indeed to welcome Guy
> Brandenberg and, so it seems, Michael Goldenberg to
> the cause: Let's put in jail the perpetrators of
> educational fraud.
>

If people ARE in fact found guilty in court of fraud, then no doubt the courts will put them in jail - if your courts, prosecuting authorities and etc. form an 'effective justice system'.

However, I want to note that there are several types of fraud: some of these varieties of fraud do not necessarily lead to jail terms (in our existing systems).

I refer particularly to the kind of fraud that you and Robert Hansen have been guilty of, of promoting the false idea that OPMS is about "list-making, and ONLY list-making - and is therefore trivial". I have time and time again (and time again) provided documentary evidence that OPMS is about much more than empty "list-making".

The most recent that I recall is as attachments to my message at the thread "Democracy - how to achieve it" - http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=2419536 . (Doubtless you have made other fraudulent arguments here at Math-teach, apart from the one I note: frauds generally do not limit themselves to only a single fraud).

See those attachments to understand clearly that OPMS is NOT about list-making only - and that you AND Robert Hansen have been guilty of promoting this fraudulent claim for several years to date, that it IS only about "list-making"!
>
> (If, as I cannot help suspecting, putting the
> the Education Mafia in jail is not what Messrs.
> Brandenberg and Goldenberg have in mind, then I
> humbly suggest to them the aphorism: People who live
> in glass houses should not throw stones.)
>

Oh???

You and Robert Hansen are the first people who should take this useful aphorism to heart.
>
> Haim
> No representation without taxation.
>


GSC
("Still Shoveling!")


Message was edited by: GS Chandy


Message was edited by: GS Chandy


Message was edited by: GS Chandy


Date Subject Author
1/9/13
Read Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Haim
1/9/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
GS Chandy
1/9/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Haim
1/9/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Wayne Bishop
1/9/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
GS Chandy
1/9/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/9/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/9/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/9/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
GS Chandy
1/10/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
israeliteknight
1/10/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/10/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Domenico Rosa
1/11/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Wayne Bishop
1/10/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Haim
1/11/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Wayne Bishop
1/11/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Robert Hansen
1/11/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
GS Chandy
1/11/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/11/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/12/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Haim
1/12/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Haim
1/13/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/14/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Haim
1/14/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/14/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Haim
1/17/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
GS Chandy
1/15/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/15/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg
1/16/13
Read Re: Frontline: The Education of Michelle Rhee
Michael Paul Goldenberg

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