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Topic: Matheology § 238
Replies: 210   Last Post: Apr 13, 2013 4:21 PM

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mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de

Posts: 13,447
Registered: 1/29/05
Re: Matheology § 238
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 4:00 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On 10 Apr., 20:14, William Hughes <wpihug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 10, 5:31 pm, WM <mueck...@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>

> > On 10 Apr., 17:14, William Hughes <wpihug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 10, 4:20 pm, WM <mueck...@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:
>
> > > > On 10 Apr., 16:10, William Hughes <wpihug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 10, 12:26 pm, WM <mueck...@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 10 Apr., 08:59, William Hughes <wpihug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > > ... we are agreed that it makes perfect
> > > > > > > sense to say that any one line (and all its predecessors)
> > > > > > > can be removed, but the collection of all lines
> > > > > > > cannot be removed

>
> > > > > > By a single move. When applying induction, i.e., when n is removed,
> > > > > > also n+1 is removed, every finite line is removed. Then no finite
> > > > > > lines remain - only actually infinite lines remain.

>
> > > > > Nope.   You can only use induction to show that a finite
> > > > > collection of finite lines can be removed.
> > > > > You cannot use induction to prove
> > > > > that the collection of all finite lines can be removed.

>
> > > > That's wrong (even if it is your opinion). Sorry. Induction holds for
> > > > all n.

>
> > > Yes and each one of those n is finite.
> > > Induction does not hold for the collection
> > > of all n.

>
> > You are wrong. Each n is finite. But for each n, also each n+1 is
> > included (when using iduction - not when removing any finite set).

>
> When using induction you can only prove that a finite thing
> has some property.


This can be proved for infinitely many finite things. For instance, we
can prove for infiniteyl many natural numbers n that the sum of the
FISON is S(n) = n(n+1)/2. So we construct a bijection
f(n) : n --> S(n).
Is this bijection finite or infinite?

>  A collection such that for any n if n is in the
> collection then n+1 is in the collection is not finite.
>  You cannot
> use induction to prove that you can remove this collection without
> changing the union.


In fact I can use induction to show that actual infinity is nonsense:
An infinite but not actually infinite collection can be constructed:
By induction I prove: I put n without arriving at an infinite set,
and when n is put, I put n+1, also without arriving at an infinite
set. In this way I construct a (potentially) infinite collection
without reaching an actually infinite collection (that is a collection
the cardinality M of which is greater than all its elements: M > n for
all n).

Regards, WM


Date Subject Author
4/6/13
Read Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Tanu R.
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Tanu R.
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Tanu R.
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Tanu R.
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
namducnguyen
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
namducnguyen
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom

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