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Topic: Matheology § 238
Replies: 210   Last Post: Apr 13, 2013 4:21 PM

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Virgil

Posts: 9,012
Registered: 1/6/11
Re: Matheology � 238
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 8:51 PM
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In article
<a22b6c4f-3578-4ef6-a3ac-c17ffbedb15a@b10g2000vbu.googlegroups.com>,
WM <mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:

> On 11 Apr., 10:10, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <0483553e-5fd3-4378-826d-24559adbf...@t5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >  WM <mueck...@rz.fh-augsburg.de> wrote:

> > > On 11 Apr., 02:02, Virgil <vir...@ligriv.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > Technically, WH is not wrong, but quite correct, since induction can
> > > > only prove that something is true for EACH MEMBER of the relevant
> > > > inductive set, but does not prove it true true for that set itself.

> >
> > > The proof holds for all members. Therefore for infinitely many
> > > members. The set itself may do what matheologians, who think that it
> > > differs from the collection of all its members, like.

> >
> > Consider the infinite set  of all FISONs, Finite Initial Sets Of
> > Naturals. One can easily prove by induction that every member of that
> > set is finite, so that by WM's argument the set of all FISONs is also
> > finite,

>
> Not by my argument but by the simple identity |{1, ..., n}| = n we can
> see that the number of elements can never surpass the numbers. This
> makes the set potentially infinite, but not actually infinite, having
> "aleph_0 > every n" elements.


What "set" is it that WM claims is potentially infinite but not actually
infinite? No such thing in standard mathematics qualifies as being a
set, since such ambiguous set membership is not allowed.

Any finite non-empty set of FISONs is ordered by inclusion so has a
largest member which equals that union of that set.

Lemma: An finite ordered set has a largest member.

If the union of a set of FISONs is a FISON, then that FISON is a member
of that set of FISONs, and is its largest member, and thus the set of
FISONs is a finite set.

If a set of FISONs is non-empty but does not have a largest member, then
its union cannot be a FISON but must contain every FISON as a subset and
the original set has more than any finite number of FISONs as members.


At least outside of Wolkenmuekenheim.



The set of ALL FISONs does not have a largest member so its union cannot
be a FISON. In WM's world one cannot have all FISONs, but there is no
way to tell which ones are prohibited from existing.

Every FISON is finite, and any union of a non-empty set of FISONs is
either a FISON itself (a finite set of fisons has a largest member by
inclusion and thus its union is that largest FISON, or is actually
infinite by reason of every member having a successor (though not
necessarily an immediate succesor) which is also a member.
--




Date Subject Author
4/6/13
Read Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Tanu R.
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
William Hughes
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Tanu R.
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/13/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/12/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
dan.ms.chaos@gmail.com
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/11/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/10/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/9/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Tanu R.
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Tanu R.
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/8/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/7/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
namducnguyen
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
namducnguyen
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology � 238
Virgil
4/6/13
Read Re: Matheology § 238
fom

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